Talk:Iran at the 2024 Summer Olympics
Latest comment: 1 month ago by Drmies in topic Other Iranians
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Removal of 'Calls for ban on participation' section by Iranian editors
editThere has been an incessant occurrence of Iranian editors deleting the WP:RS "Calls for ban on participation" section, showing examples of WP:Vandalism, WP:POV, and WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT. User:2604:3D08:5A7C:7000:1856:2AC7:49AA:A3EC twice blanked out the section: 1, 2 while falsely claiming to have "cleaned up" the section due to errors, User:MQobad twice blanked out the section without any edit summaries: 3, 4, and User:Sicaspi removed it with the edit summary "repititve" (sic), even though it had not been repeated elsewhere: 5. All of these section deletions are without WP:Consensus. --Ronnnaldo7 (talk) 03:19, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- There’s Already an identical section at the end. Don’t you see? Also avoid ad hominom attacks. Sicaspi (talk) 06:14, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for pointing out the duplicate section; I hadn't seen it prior. I've removed the duplicate at the end. Also, there hasn't been a single ad hominem attack. Ronnnaldo7 (talk) 06:50, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- I won't make any changes to the page, but based on the tone, redundancies and how sections are named and placed, it feels adversarial and challenging the NPOV - at least to me. I feel like I'm being told what should I think or how should I feel.
- The 2nd paragraph of the lead is almost word-by-word half of the "Calls for ban" section, could mention concerns around partricipation with details later.
- The 4th pgph almost word-by-word can be found in the "Other Iranian" section, could be summarized with a much shorter sentence.
- The 3rd pgph is also quite lengthy, the number of competitors and the final medals would do it. Parts of it could go to the "Competitors" section, other parts could go to a "Background" section, which exists in many other NOC pages.
- And I'd put the "Calls for ban" in "Background" as a sub-section. Csm790 (talk) 18:19, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Ronnnaldo7, @Drmies, what do you think? Csm790 (talk) 15:22, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- Sure--meaning I don't have a strong opinion. Drmies (talk) 15:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Csm790: What exactly are you proposing to change them to? You've provided examples of some things you'd like to see changed, but I'd like to see what your plan is, and what exactly you'd like to write & replace them with. Also, please read the below "Other Iranians" section on this talk page here - there is a lot of vandalism and section blanking from Iranian IPs and users (along with personal attacks & threats). The current article is a culmination of edits, improvements, and restorations from a number of users, not just myself. I'm fine with leaving the article as it currently is, but I'm curious to know what exactly you're proposing on changing them to. The lead already briefly summarizes both the "Call for ban on participation" and the "Other Iranian" sections; how else do you propose on summarizing them even more briefly? I'm open to the possibility of moving the "Calls for ban on participation" section to the bottom of the article, but as discussed below, it's been moved up by other users as well. --Ronnnaldo7 (talk) 16:56, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Ronnnaldo7: I know that every article is the summary of many different inputs, and I hope that mines would be steps towards consensus.
- My main "problem" is that the lead seemingly tries to tell everything, and almost everything after is just repetition.
- For the 3rd and 4th paragraph Ireland is a good example for me. It mentions some stats in the lead, and keeps the details for the "Medalists" section (something that is just a table for most NOCs). It even mentions there athletes of Irish background representing other nations, something that is relevant to this page as well.
- However, what stands out to me is the "Calls for ban" title as literally the first section name (which unsurprisingly angered many), and the repetition of the tribulations of the athletes, which, while can't be told enough times, also probably shouldn't be "overused", especially in an encyclopedic context. But this might be my uninformed opinion.
- As for what I would reduce the 2nd and 4th to: "Before and during the Games, there were calls to ban Iran from the 2024 Summer Olympics due to human rights abuse allegations. Stemming from events and conditions in the country, 14 of the 37 athletes on the Refugee Olympic Team at the 2024 Summer Olympics were Iranian." Or something similar, I'm not a writer.
- And I would create a "Background" section (like many NOCs) with additional info, where the "Calls for ban" could be a sub-section in its entirety.
- I also don't think that the "Other Iranians" has to be sent to the end of the page, but if this is consensus then ok. Csm790 (talk) 20:40, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- I'd also add the Sport and Event of the "Other Iranians".
- Medal/rank, Name, Sport, Event, Represented Country. Csm790 (talk) 20:47, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- The problem with "Stemming from events and conditions in the country", for example, is that it's an example of WP:Editorial and WP:NOR. We need to stick to the facts based on the WP:RS. The current lead does a fairly good job of briefly summarizing the other sections - it is to the point and brief with the reasonings for the calls for ban, and is to the point in regards to the Iranian medalists and the "Other Iranians". Both the Calls for ban and Other Iranians sections are more in-depth compared to the lead.--Ronnnaldo7 (talk) 21:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- If that wording goes against so many WP: then cutting it would be even better, relying on the same non-English source. Or maybe there's some article - English or other - that discusses whether or not possible connections between the aforementioned abuses and the fact that people (including athletes) flee the country exist.
- As for "the current lead does a fairly good job of briefly summarizing", I continue to disagree. Csm790 (talk) 22:24, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- The problem with "Stemming from events and conditions in the country", for example, is that it's an example of WP:Editorial and WP:NOR. We need to stick to the facts based on the WP:RS. The current lead does a fairly good job of briefly summarizing the other sections - it is to the point and brief with the reasonings for the calls for ban, and is to the point in regards to the Iranian medalists and the "Other Iranians". Both the Calls for ban and Other Iranians sections are more in-depth compared to the lead.--Ronnnaldo7 (talk) 21:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Ronnnaldo7, @Drmies, what do you think? Csm790 (talk) 15:22, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
In the article about "israel" at these olympics the section about Calls for ban on participation is at the end, here it's at the beginning. Why double standards? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.144.207.238 (talk) 19:19, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah that's not really relevant. Not everything can be formalized, and "double standard" suggests this is done on purpose. Drmies (talk) 15:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- As discussed below, it has been moved up near the top a few times by other users, and it was initially brought near the top by other editors.--Ronnnaldo7 (talk) 16:59, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
Other Iranians
editOn the Refugee Olympic Team at the 2024 Summer Olympics, 14 of the 37 athletes are Iranian.
Also, some Iranians competed for other countries. Some of them were born in Iran, while some are only of Iranian descent.
- Tara Babulfath (Sweden at the 2024 Summer Olympics) -
- Kimia Alizadeh (Bulgaria at the 2024 Summer Olympics) -
- Sara Doorsoun (Germany at the 2024 Summer Olympics) -
- Milad Karimi (Kazakhstan at the 2024 Summer Olympics) - 5th
- Sabah Shariati (Azerbaijan at the 2024 Summer Olympics) - 5th
- Tina Rahimi (Australia at the 2024 Summer Olympics) - 9th
- Dara Alizadeh (Bermuda at the 2024 Summer Olympics) - 28th
- Hady Habib (Lebanon at the 2024 Summer Olympics) - 33th
- Mariam Sheikhalizadeh (Azerbaijan at the 2024 Summer Olympics) - 35th
- Thanks. It looks like multiple users have re-added the content after it had faced section blanking, so it'll need to be discussed on the talk page here before being removed. I've updated it to the following and have also added the WP:RS, but it seems there is a lot of vandalism, deletion, sourced content removal, and section blanking from Iranian users who WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT and aren't willing to reach consensus on the talk page. The Refugee Olympic Team content along with the WP:RS had been added prior, but the recently-added diaspora section is the one that seems to be causing dismay for them. Both this section and the "Calls for ban on participation" section have seen multiple occasions of section blanking from Iranian users.
- On the Refugee Olympic Team at the 2024 Summer Olympics, 14 of the 37 athletes are Iranian.[1]
- Some Iranians also competed for other countries; some were born in Iran and have represented Iran in the past, while some are of Iranian descent.[2]
- Tara Babulfath (Sweden at the 2024 Summer Olympics) -
- Kimia Alizadeh (Bulgaria at the 2024 Summer Olympics) -
- Sara Doorsoun (Germany at the 2024 Summer Olympics) -
- Milad Karimi (Kazakhstan at the 2024 Summer Olympics) - 5th
- Sabah Shariati (Azerbaijan at the 2024 Summer Olympics) - 5th
- Tina Rahimi (Australia at the 2024 Summer Olympics) - 9th
- Dara Alizadeh (Bermuda at the 2024 Summer Olympics) - 28th
- Hady Habib (Lebanon at the 2024 Summer Olympics) - 33th
- Mariam Sheikhalizadeh (Azerbaijan at the 2024 Summer Olympics) - 35th
--Ronnnaldo7 (talk) 17:52, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
- I've requested page protection now after the recent blanking of the above content and the latest section blanking of the "Calls for ban on participation" section from IPs and newly-created accounts. --Ronnnaldo7 (talk) 17:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
- Looks like the vandalism is still ongoing. Per another user's added request on the page protection page, WP:CT/IRP also needs to be enforced. --Ronnnaldo7 (talk) 21:48, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
- Ronnnaldo7, you're going to have to find a better place to put that list: it should be taken out of the lead. And of course the numbering should go too--it means nothing. Thanks. Drmies (talk) 22:51, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
- Sure, will do. Thanks! Ronnnaldo7 (talk) 01:48, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
- I've cleaned it up and added the following table along with more WP:RS:
- Sure, will do. Thanks! Ronnnaldo7 (talk) 01:48, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
| Nothing helpful here. Drmies (talk) 00:30, 18 September 2024 (UTC) |
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| The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
@Drmies: he just talks nonsense. here is encyclopedia not editing anything he want. he has another account (User talk:Ah.khataie). he has sick mentality. wikipedia is not wp:war ! those 2 parts must be deleted. in no pages comes this sentences (parts) like this. he must read WP:NOT. thanks. 77.237.191.125 (talk)
References Joseph2302 and Papaursa hello, what is your idea about above title? i deleted but some one think he has wp:own on the article! many edits (see history) show that this part is not needed and have no fans for remaining. it's against wikipedia's principlal (we can't see in any articles like this). this article is about medalists under flag of Iran! --77.237.185.111 (talk)
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