Talk:Irish parliament

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved Irish parliament (disambiguation) to Irish parliament, and made Irish Parliament into a redirect to Irish parliament. The original proponent, Mabuska, argued that Irish parliament should not take you to Oireachtas in an article on an 18th century topic. The Irish parliament was different things in different time periods. The solution here takes account of that and gives a reasonable system of disambiguation. EdJohnston (talk) 05:20, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

---

Irish parliament (disambiguation) → Irish parliament – Back in January whilst reading an article to do with 18th century Ireland I noticed a link to Irish parliament which for some reason redirected me to Oireachtas. This is wrong considering the time-period and upon checking the page history an IP changed it in September 2013 from Parliament of Ireland to Oireachtas.

Acting to remedy this I turned it into a disambiguation page for both parliament of Ireland and Oireachtas as the term refers to both. Murry1975 added other entities that the term could refer to, and that was that.

Over four weeks later User:BD2412 reverts these changes back to the IPs undiscussed edit mistaking it for the "long-standing" redirect. They also point out that we already have Irish parliament (disambiguation) for disambiguation which does make mine and Murry1075s edits to Irish parliament pointless.

So I decided to redirect the page to Irish parliament (disambiguation), though BD2412 informs me that this constitutes WP:MALPLACED unless there is a talk based discussion to move the disambiguation page to an undisambiguated title.

So I formally propose that we move Irish parliament (disambiguation) to Irish Parliament. I also propose we redirect Irish parliament (with a non-capital P) to the same. Reasoning? Because the term Irish parliament can refer to various different entities that it shouldn't be linked to one single article. Mabuska ^(talk) 23:05, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

Moved from Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Ireland-related articles

NOTE - I have swapped around the capital P and non-capital P Irish Parliament names above in the proposal as capital-P has 65 articles and pages linking to it compared to non-capital P's 1 article and 8 pages. Nothing that affects the proposal. Mabuska ^(talk) 13:24, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Then again the original redirect is to Parliament of Ireland and it does have at the top a disambiguation line, so maybe we could just keep this link to what it originally was until the IP changed it? Or should we implement the above proposal? Mabuska ^(talk) 23:15, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

I don't mean to be too bureaucratic, but ideally, a move request should be filed through the process at Wikipedia:Requested moves (i.e., the template provided there should be added to Talk:Irish parliament (disambiguation), with the reasoning laid out above. Note that it is fairly common practice for a term identifying the legislature of a jurisdiction to redirect to whatever article covers that body at the present time, even if the jurisdiction has had other bodies in the pase (see, e.g. German parliament, Russian parliament, Scottish Parliament). bd2412 T 23:20, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

That link from Dec 2005 to Sep 2013 redirected to the at present oldest and longest lasting parliament of Ireland. Personally I don't think Wikipedia:Requested moves comes into effect here as this is not a controversial issue as far as I am aware. Thus this falls under the "When not to use this page" part of that link. The issue can be sorted out within this WikiProject as we have the competent members and I think an agreement can be quickly reached on what way to go. Also consider the note at the end of the first section of Wikipedia:Requested moves which makes mention that Ireland pages should be discussed here, and whilst Irish parliament is not mentioned in that list, I feel that vindicates my choice of here as the best place to sort this. Mabuska ^(talk) 23:49, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

"Oldest and longest lasting" are hardly definitive criteria for which institution merits the default name, any more than, say, "richest and longest-lived" for a person-name article. It's suggestive that the parent category is called Category:Parliament of Ireland (pre-1801). Starting from scratch I would favour making "Parliament of Ireland" and "Irish Parliament" a dab. I am sure that at present there are a fair few bad wikilinks and a fair number of searchers arriving at the "wrong" page...

...however after a move there would be a much larger number of broken wikilinks and I'm not volunteering to fix them. (Of course linking to a DAB is much less bad than linking to the wrong article, and inlinks to a DAB are much easier to detect. But unless someone can give a reasonable estimate for the scale of errors caused by the present setup, it's best to let sleeping dogs lie.) jnestorius^(talk) 16:52, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

Only two actual articles out of 6 pages in total link to Irish_parliament_(disambiguation). I don't think that would be too challenging to change if we moved the disambiguation page to Irish parliament, which links to only 1 article out of 9 pages. Irish Parliament however links to 65 articles and pages, so maybe it should be the actual disambiguation page with the other two redirected to it seeing as it would only mean changing three articles. Mabuska ^(talk) 22:17, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't realise you only wanted to move Irish Parliament; I assumed you wanted to move Parliament of Ireland as well. I don't know whether it's better to have them point in different directions; seems counterintuitive. But really I would not have cared enough to comment had I understood the question :) jnestorius^(talk) 22:34, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

(Refuting my previous claim by commenting further) Having contributed somewhat to both Irish House of Commons and Parliament of Ireland, and wikilinked to both via those names and the converse House of Commons of Ireland and Irish Parliament. I can never remember which is the name and which the redirect, and would resent having to pay attention. But if others feel strongly I would grumble in private. jnestorius^(talk) 11:13, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Just to clarify, no I don't want to move Parliament of Ireland. What I do want to move is the Irish parliament (disambiguation) page to Irish Parliament, which at present is simply a redirect to Parliaent of Ireland. However in light of the fact the Irish Parliament (capital P) redirect to Parliament of Ireland has more articles linking to it (65), that it instead should be the disambiguation page and I have altered the proposal above to reflect this. Mabuska ^(talk) 13:21, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

All incoming links are fixed. I support moving this page to Irish parliament and pointing Irish Parliament there. bd2412 T 21:47, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

• Support as sensible. "Irish parliament" is ambiguous. (I also moved the discussion to it's proper location. Only moves relating to the Ireland, Republic of Ireland and Ireland (disambiguation) articles are under AbrCom. --Tóraí (talk) 23:57, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose. Not ambiguous enough. This should take users to the article on the Parliament in Dublin. Red Slash 17:07, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Which Parliament in Dublin? The Parliament of Ireland one or the Oireachtas one? Two different entities from two different periods both entitled to the name "Irish parliament". Mabuska ^(talk) 22:00, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

The one that exists. I don't mean to be curt because you raise a fair point but the one that exists now is clearly more important. Red Slash 23:54, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

• Support. Irish parliament is ambiguous, and should be a disambiguation page. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 08:42, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.