Talk:Irma Grese/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Intresting inks

//www.auschwitz.dk/Women/Grese.htm

//www.justiceatdachau.com/bio.htm

//militaryhistory.suite101.com/article.cfm/irma_grese_beast_of_auschwitz

//www.auschwitz.dk/Women/Bormann.htm

//www.auschwitz.dk/Women/Mandel.htm

//www.auschwitz.dk/Women/Bothe.htm

I'd just like to point out that the cwporter.com link leads to a anti-jewish nutter conspiracy hate site. The greencastle.k12.pa.us link is to a schoolgirl that seems to have made a quilt (blanket) commemorating Nazi women (very odd, not encyclopedic). Justiceatdachau.com, although an interesting book is about Dachau and Buchenwald prosecutions (nothing to do with Irma Grese). People seem to mix up Ilse Koch (The Bitch of Buchenwald) with Irma Grese. The wikipedia link is to... here. --Eqdoktor 06:30, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Rationale- I thought the quilt was an intresting new off-shoot which involve Irma. Encyclopedic? The silly cwporter sight was a bit to 'mustard' after all. It apears not alternate veipoint, just wieard! As for the link from this page to this page- It's a error, I wanted Ilse Koch, but cut and paisted the wrong one. --Homer slips. 04:53, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

C.W.Porter is to be handeled with care and caution due to it's far right-wing nature.--86.29.248.151 00:41, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

The site is conected to some far-right political partys to.

Neo-Nazis Again Pushing Their Pseudo-Heroine

The Neo-Nazis are at it again, massaging the article and trying to promote this depraved individual into some kind of glorious and victimized Aryan milkmaid. We'll have to keep an eye on this -- either that or have the article protected in some reasonably neutral form. I'd hate to have some innocent kid stumble across it in its current form and assume it's for real.

Irma Grese was never SS, because the SS never allowed women. How anyone can believe the crap about her skinning Jews is beyond the pale. She was a simple farm girl that worked at a camp, she was paid by German labor dept.

She was a sadistic guard and liked to beat people with her wip, but did not have Ilsa Koch's type 'skin lampshades' in her office. --Lilidor 06:44, 7 March 2007 (UTC) #

Archive 1

Archive 2

What total nonsense

This girl was a 19 yr old postal clerk, who took roll call. You need to be a total idiot to think she skinned three jews alive. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.12.194.210 (talk) 04:59, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Pierrepoint's memoires

According the memoires of Pierrepoint, as placed at [1], his version differs slightly from what is mentioned in the article. I will change it.Jeff5102 (talk) 19:52, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Age

Page 66 of the Law Reports of Trials of War Criminals By United Nations War Crimes Commission (cited in footnotes) says that she was underage at the time of the offences...how exactly does that work? Do we have her birthdate wrong? Sherurcij ^{(Speaker for the Dead)} 21:27, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

The entirety of Page 66 concerns Helena Kopper, not Irma Grese. I can't find any reference to either of these people being referred to as "underage", though; in fact, the word "underage" doesn't seem to appear in this document at all. I've reread the section about Grese (including the closing statement by Grese's attorney) and I can't find any such reference regardless of the specific terms used. Could you be more specific as to where it is? Merenta (talk) 15:52, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

The footnote on the page, not the page itself, my apologies. Sherurcij ^{(Speaker for the Dead)} 01:04, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

General factual accuracy

The articel may have left some stuff out.--86.25.7.123 (talk) 09:26, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

The use of the phraze "lice ridden..."

I guess the editors must have agreed about " the lice ridden " part. Is the complete record of an article available - original, edits ( each ) etc? It would be interesting to compare how goofy an article gets ( from both sides - I doubt the dreaded trolls,etc can match the "official" edits in most cases. Anyhow, per Miss Grese, tracing down each account ( head of 30,000, etc )should prove amusing - I believe most of these accounts rely on a surprisingly smaal number of "eyewitnesses" who often get things a little out of whack. I just came from a site by cwporter ( I know an unreliable source but reading him seems to flesh this story out a bit. One witness - Abraham Gl***** - seems to be a/the source for some of the good stuff about Miss Grese. I will try to chase him down. 159.105.80.80 15:17, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Factual accuracy

Abraham Glinowieski, seems to be a major witness against several defendants. Some of hid testimony seems questionable, but he was the witness du jour. Abe had Miss Grese performing tasks that appeared well above her pay grade (ie a teenager was selecting who was to be killed - a doctors only job, of course if there ever was such a job.) Reading the trial transcript, or available parts seems to raise more questions than it answeres.159.105.80.80 17:18, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

How did she dare shot prisoners on her own whim when camp commanders were executed for cruelty to inmates? Sounds unlikely that she lived long enough to be captured and hung by the British. 159.105.80.80 17:24, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

The article tries to imply (accidently maybe?) that she was SS - no way, no women were SS. SS-helper was as close as she could get. Camp matron. Her whip was supposed to be jewel encrusted - actually made of cellophane, minus the jewels.159.105.80.80 18:16, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Can all sources be so blindly believe? Watch out for the far-right and radical left, which hold out on so-called Holocaust 'history' sites. Some sites nead to be treated with care and caution, due to their radical viewpoints. (C.W.Porter, ect).!--86.29.242.170 18:30, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree, mate!--86.29.250.83 01:44, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeo, man!--86.29.250.156 20:09, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Be particularly careful of sites that list holocaust crimes without any verifiable evidence. Were the women German prisoners tortured after WW2 - the male prisoners seem to have been particularly badly treated - stupidly also. 159.105.80.141 17:10, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Be careful about under or unsourced Holocaust denier sites to.--86.25.53.223 (talk) 09:33, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

New Book

I found this at Amazon: The Blonde Beast of Birkenau and Belsen: The Life and Crimes of Irma Grese. It's short, only 27 pages, and was published on November 23, 2013, in Kindle form. I have absolutely no interest in reading this book but maybe someone else can use it to add information to the entry. Rissa, copy editor (talk) 02:10, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

innocent/ guilty

I　ｈａｖｅ　ｒｅｃｅｎｔｌｙ read another source regarding Irma Grese http://www.scrapbookpages.com/bergenbelsen/BergenBelsen09.html that she might be innocent and victimized as a nazi sadist by the allied force for exaggerating the sadism inside concentration camp.

It was noted that there were no evidence of the inmates she had killed, nor is there any proof that she did any selection or dog biting. It seems that the court had pre-disposition of ruling them guilty in mind prior to trials. It's very hard to hide your crime in a camp with 30000 inmates becoz anyone could pin-point at what you have exactly done, but the testimonies that some *witness* gave were so ambiguous and the rest inmates insisted that she didn't commit any serious crimes.

It's highly suspicious that she committed any serious crimes, a few whipping maybe, as she admitted, which was understandable in a prison environment. I had internal feeling that she might had be a victim of demonizing any persons involving in the concentration camp by the occupied allie force for propaganda purpose.

One more doubt that chimes inside my head is that, if she really committed any serious war crime, why did she remain at the camp and not fleeing or commit suicide? Those Nazi criminals had been flew away long before the allied forces had arrived... I had feeling that this girl was innocent given the supportive documents. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.165.236.46 (talk) 07:15, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Information coming from scrapbookpages.com has no credibility at all, as its author isn't an historian but a guy like you and me, and as the website is a revisionist website (see the blog related to the website, you'll understand rapidly what kind of website it is) on which, like on many revisionist websites, you'll find a mix of true and of false information, providing the very personal opinion of its author... 78.250.109.249 (talk) 13:31, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Neutrality

I read this article for research a few months ago and whilst the early parts appear the same, most of the latter half appears to have been substantially re-edited in her favour, as well as certain other statements (eg. the executioner's suicide) which didn't appear in the earlier article at all. It is also interesting that none of this supposedly verifiable information is referenced in any way.

DG, Leeds, UK

I've added 3 tags to the dogy bits on her love life. --Homer slips. 03:54, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Neatrality? I think the POV-tag is misplaced. It should not refer to "War crimes" but to "Beautiful Beast". The "War crimes" section is, in my view, factual and neutral. It just tells what she was accused of, and convicted for. The only factual mistake here seems to be the date of her conviction - I don't believe she was hanged the same day!

Found meanwhile the correct date of conviction in a German document [2] and changed it.--Kauko56 23:47, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

The "Beautiful Beast" section, however, dwells on her (alleged) lovers or sexual preferences and is therefore irrelevant for her place in history, or her legal guilt. The references for this section do not point to sources but to tabloid press clippings. If we want to shed some light on who she was as a person (not: as a criminal) we should at least try to get better sources.
These are the reasons why I removed the POV-Tag from "War Crimes" and placed it on "Beautiful Beast". --Kauko56 23:34, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I've been studying Mengele for a long time, and nowhere have I ever heard that he took Irma Grese as a lover. If anything, he was fiercely loyal to his wife, Irene, and she even lived with him at Auschwitz for about a year. I think a lot of this article is wishful thinking, trying to make another cruel SS guard into some romantic heroine. --Rebecca, Myrtle Beach SC 10/07/06

Research project - if her love life ( if it existed ) is not verifiable by reliable sources, then where did the unreliable data come from - proNazi sources? Could some junk come from non-ProNazi sources, perish the thought, but let's document it. 159.105.80.141 13:32, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

An interesting project would be to trace back all the rumors and the sources - her love life ( who and where did it first come from - some document or a reilable holocaust source), etc.159.105.80.141 17:12, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Non active and old articles are being archived. All stuff that was not used since April 2007 was archived.--The golden easter party man (talk) 03:19, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

It seems to me that anyone that claims that "meticulous grooming, custom fitted clothes, and overuse of perfume" is a "deliberate act of sadism" is neither rational nor an unbiased observer.203.184.41.226 (talk) 05:33, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. However little in this article is balanced. The only references to her alleged crimes is an account from someone who is unashamedly biased. There is no reference to what she was actually charged with or convicted of.Royalcourtier (talk) 03:05, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

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