Talk:Irminones
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Theory rather than fact?
editThe article says that "They may have differentiated into the tribes Alamanni, Hermunduri, Marcomanni, Quadi, Suebi) circa 10 CE. At this time the Suebi, Marcomanni and Quadi had moved southwest into the area of modern day Bavaria and Swabia. In 8 BCE, the Marcomanni and Quadi drove the Boii out of Bohemia. The term Suebi is usually applied to all the groups that moved into this area, though later in history (ca. 200 CE) the term Alamanni (meaning "all-men") became more commonly applied to the group. This became the basis for the French name for Germany and the Germans." It should maybe be noted that the first mention of the Alamanni is in AD 213, when they undertook their first serious assault on the agri decumates. What's more, this can't quite have been simply a new name for the Suebi, since the Suebi took part in the great Rhine crossing of 406 and afterwards settled in the north-west of the Iberian peninsula. I also doubt that the Marcomanni and Quadi in Bohemia are "usually" collectively called Suebi; I have come across no such convention in my reading. The Alamanni probably settled in modern-day south-west Germany, not in Bohemia (at least, that's what the thrust of their attacks into Germania Superior and Raetia would suggest). --Helmold 18:41, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
Actually, another thought. The Suebi confederation may well have been dissolved, with the name "Suebi" subsequently being applied to a Suebic tribes (the Semnones?). They could then have been part of the Alamannic confederation, but left in AD 406. This would offer a possible explanation as to why an area of south-west Germany is now called Swabia. --Helmold 00:10, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
There is alot of theorizing (not necessarily a bad thing in and of itself) going on here at the expense of our primary source, Tacitus' Germania, and other primary data. Specifically, Tacitus says nothing of the tribes in question being purely West Germanic, and in regards to the Ingvaeones we have ample evidence to include (albeit in retrospect) the Danes via Beowulf and the Swedes (and Norwegians) via the Heimskringla. Meanwhile our only evidence of the man-god who gave his names to the Irminones comes from (albeit again in retrospect) Westphalia via the "Carolingian Chronciles" and Widukind of Corvey, ie. Charlemagne's destruction of the Irminsul and Widukind relating his "Hermes-Herman-Mars" to the Irminsul. The desire to super-impose the sons of Mannus and their resepctive tribal groupings on language and matieral culture, however tempting, is ultimately pure speculation. And pure specualtion that doesn't accomodate the "greater picture", ie. Beowulf, Heimskringla, Widukind, etc.
IMO this entire page and it's corresponding pages need to be rebuilt, and laid on a more solid foundation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.68.65.229 (talk) 04:03, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
Aryans ?
editCould "Irminones" in fact be "Ari-mans" - Ari-men - Aryans? Ari in Indoeuropean, meaning "elevated", from which the german "Herr" (sir, or lord) comes from. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.53.149.242 (talk) 13:05, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
- Irmin > Proto-Germanic *erminaz, *ermenaz or *ermunaz, meaning "great, high, exalted". You will have a hard time linking it to Aryan, and why would you want that anyway? In any case, you would need to provide some evidence for such a claim. 95.166.163.48 (talk) 08:35, 28 April 2011 (UTC)