Talk:Iron gall ink

pics

I want to use this image: Image:Eisengallustinte Essenzen I und II und Tinte.jpg but I need the description translated first. This is mostly just a note to myself. — coelacan talk — 04:59, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Okay, on the left is an iron and vinegar solution (made from nails and screws!), on the right, an oak extraction in water, and in the middle (in the brown glass) is the mixed ink. Apparently this is homemade, and the two solutions have to be kept separate, until they are mixed just before using as ink. — coelacan talk — 05:21, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Tannin

Tannin is not tannic acid. They are two separate things. Please see link below

http://www.teatalk.com/science/tannin.htm

In light of this, perhaps the reference to tannin should be removed and the gallotannic reference be taken of its parenthesis. Dave (talk) 15:42, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

page move

"Iron gall ink" gets 32,200 ghits, "Iron-gall nut ink" gets 288, including Wikipedia. I'm moving. — coelacan talk — 22:11, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Photo illustrating damage caused by iron gall ink

FYI, the fourth photo on the iron gall ink page actually shows damage caused to vellum, NOT paper, as the caption shows. It is true, nonetheless, that iron gall ink causes damage to vellum as well as paper. 71.184.126.27 (talk) 17:38, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Availability

I didn't see anything on it in the article, but are there any places where iron gall ink pens are sold? I was hoping not to have to purchase anything from online, but was wondering if it could be acquired through a certain store. 24.233.128.66 (talk) 04:03, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Iron Gall ink is suitable only for use by dip pens which you can still find in most art supply shops. Because this ink is highly corrosive, it cannot be used in fountain pens (I suppose you could use it - once, but the pen would be destroyed!).Lexlex (talk) 11:50, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Torah

This section about a religious text and arbitrary rules is not relevant to ink. Planning to strike unless someone can enlighten.Lexlex (talk) 18:34, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

"12th century"

The article mentions manuscripts "well over 1,000 years old" but states the 12th century in the lead paragraph. Should that read 11th or even 10th century? Or did a different type of ink predominate in the 11th century, with a gradual transition to iron gall? Varlaam (talk) 07:27, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Actually recipes for Oak Gall ink go all the way back to Pliney the Elder. Were in common usage in the western world since the 5th century. The world's oldest and most complete Bible "The Codex Sinaticus" was written entirely in Iron Oak Gall Ink. Due to this historical usage I am changing the article to reflect the historical truth.Dave (talk) 05:37, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

As far as I know, 1,000 years ago, until about 400 years ago, inks used carbon black, as they do today. I never heard of iron gall in ancient times. 79.106.203.50 (talk) 09:20, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Pact ink

If it causes ink corrosion it can't really be used for pact ink like the pact ink page claims. Should i make a change to the pact ink page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.12.73.85 (talk) 13:12, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

It is an Iron Gall Ink. Leave it be.IanRol (talk) 03:55, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

The Ink recipes are not fully specified.

The ink recipes as given, specify several liquid acids purely by volume. For a usable recipe, the concentration of the acid needs also to be specified, either as a percentage by weight or a molarity value. For the original regulations cited, that was probably supplied in a supporting clause or a meta-standard, something to the effect of "in this standard 'hydrochloric acid' shall refer to a 1M aqueous solution". --50.134.74.129 (talk) 13:09, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

If the recipe isn't a modern recipe they can't give the concentration of the acid. It wasn't known. Recipes can give the weight of of the gallo-tannic acid donor. They can give the volume of liquid used to extract the tannic acid. But the concentration of the acid is both unknowable and varied. Some sources of gallo-tannic acid had more or less tannic acid than others. Gall nuts themselves on the same tree varied in the amount of gallo-tannic acid available as well. Dave (talk) 15:10, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

dead reference/citation links

The following reference URLs lead to a dead page

1. Iron gall ink - Chemistry by Elmer Eusman (1998) - http://www.irongallink.org/igi/igi-chemical-reactions
2. Fruen, Lois (2002). "Iron Gall Ink". Kendall/Hunt Publishing. ISBN 0-7872-9677-5. - http://www.realscience.breckschool.org/upper/fruen/files/Enrichmentarticles/files/IronGallInk/IronGallInk.html

Platignum/Platinum

Re the recent squabble over whether the pen company name should be spelled "Platignum" or "Platinum". First, there are two distinct companies: (i) Platignum, a British company founded in 1919, and registered as the Platignum Pen Company in 1925: the company was acquired by Adare Printing in 1997, and survived as a brand name for a few more years, but now seems to have disappeared entirely; and (ii) Platinum, a Japanese company founded in 1919, renamed the Platinum Fountain Pen Co. in 1928, and still going strong. As Francis Flinch notes, it is Platinum that markets the six inks in question. However, although their publicity repeatedly uses the words "classic" and "traditional", at no point do they explicitly describe the inks as "iron gall" (or either of those words individually), and personally I see no justification for mentioning them here. I'm going to be bold, and remove the sentence entirely: if anyone wants to reinsert it, I suggest you're very careful with the wording, and don't go beyond what the company actually says. GrindtXX (talk) 13:23, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Date of development of good inks

This sentence is surely incorrect: 'It was not until the invention of chemically-produced inks and writing fluids in the latter half of the 20th century that iron gall ink fell from common use.' Quink, for example, was developed in 1931. 'The earlier' should be substituted for 'the latter'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.151.166.210 (talk) 09:47, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

sources of the iron

was it economical to just (for instance) rust iron filings and crush them? Or did it require use of sulphuric acid? Arlo James Barnes 00:36, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

Iron filings could work but iron in that form is not very soluble. Iron Sulfate however is incredibly soluble in water and water based solutions such as beer, wine and vinegar. So while you could use iron filings or rust iron filings, the iron will take much longer to get into solution. This issue was known in the medieval time periods. There are recipes that say heat up a chunk of iron to glowing red. Put it into the tannic acid extraction solution. A heated iron chunk will give up iron molecules faster than a room temperature one.

tl/dr It is very uneconomical. Iron sulfate is practically instantaneous and therefor a better choice if available. Dave (talk) 15:15, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Printing

No mention of printing? Curious how this was used on presses, if it seem liquid? 79.106.203.50 (talk) 09:25, 15 May 2024 (UTC)