Talk:Ishtori Haparchi

Italy or Spain?

Several sources say he came from Florence and his name means the Florentine (i.e from Florence). Some add Spain after Florence but all these are quoting one original source that has this. There is no "Florence" in Spain. Some sources try correcting this by saying "Florenzia" but even this is merely the Spanish name for Florence in Italy. Is there really some obscure place called Florenzia in Spain? Spanish people I know have never heard of it and insist its what they call Florence in Italy. Googling all I can find is "Florenzia" as a personal name, a place in South America or the Spanish name for Florence in Italy. Only articles on Ishtori Haparchi mention a Florenzia in Spain. Kuratowski's Ghost (talk) 13:37, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

There was a "farm" (granja) called Florencia in the province of Zamora, see this amazing gazetteer. I'm still dubious, though. Zero^talk 09:00, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Hey guys, this article is talking about two different individuals -- one is dated 1280-1366 and the other 1306-1355. We need to sort this out -- unfortunately I have no idea how to do so. Liskeardziz (talk) 13:19, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

See good discussion at https://www.geni.com/discussions/181458 Arminden (talk) 17:47, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

@Kuratowski's Ghost, Zero0000, and Liskeardziz:

3.5 (or 20) years on, and we're back at the same point, except that the useful discussion at geni.com has been deleted.

We have an unsourced paragraph mentioning a "pun on his surname", but w/o any explanation for parhi meaning flower in Hebrew, and of HaParhi possibly meaning "from a place named flower" or alike. So an unsourced and nonsensical statement (as far as an enWiki user is concerned), and a dead end.

I have put together something, based on the introduction to his book in an unknown edition (the link to the book is flagged as dubious, at least by my phone). @Davidbena: talking of redacted HaParhi editions... (see Ness Ziona). If David, Zero, or anyone can figure it out by now, this could finally be used in the article:

He was born in a Spanish place called Florenzia (not the city of Florence in Italy), which is also the origin of his family name, HaParhi meaning "of the flower" in Hebrew.<ref name=org>[https://farhi.org/Documents/Rabbi_Ishtori.htm "A History of Rabbi Ishtori HaParhi"], from the introduction of his book ''Caftor VePerah''. Accessed via Farhi.org, 21 January 2024.</ref>

Arminden (talk) 12:31, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

I would not know much about the origin of the surname "ha-Parchi", but I do know Jewish families with the same surname today. In Yemen, there was a Jewish family named "al-Farchi". The "P" and the "F" are interchangeable.Davidbena (talk) 13:47, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

The direct gazetteer page address is this (p. 110, ri. column, centre.).

Madoz, Pascual (1850). Diccionario geográfico-estadístico-histórico de España y sus posesiones de Ultramar. Vol. VIII (FAB - GUA), Madrid.

Arminden (talk) 12:52, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

This reminds me so much of another alleged Jewish travelogue, that of Isaac Chelo. The only biographical source, that of Carmoly, says he was born in "Laresa" in Aragon (Spain), which apparently does not exist. One interpretation is Larissa in Thessaly, but the consensus is that Carmoly made it up. So the next thing I'd like to know is whether "Florencia" comes from Haparchi himself or from someone else. If it came from Carmoly the puzzle would be solved. Zero^talk 13:23, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Nestorius?

Is that really a name he is known under? It only seems to show up in the context of Shiloh. I'm afraid it might be a plain mistake. If indeed it is one, the automatic link should be removed, and the article thete corrected. Cheers, Arminden (talk) 15:44, 14 April 2019 (UTC)