Talk:Islam in Suriname

According to the latest census(2004) there are 66.307 muslims in Suriname out of a population of 492.829 or about 13.45 per cent of the population.Source is the site: www.statistics-suriname.org

• Ok, I've adjusted the article and cited the source. Thanks for your help. Fightindaman 19:57, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

This important FACT was deleted. Its reference as well. In its place, someone's only contribution to Wikipedia put in an interesting story, only corroborated by a quote from the Jamestown Foundation. Sounds like a clear example of vandalism to me, and I would be tempted to be bold and just revert to your version, even though that one is almost a year old now. Crazy.

Even worse: the allegation that the percentage of muslims in Suriname has gone down because of emigration to the Netherlands is dead wrong as well: in 1975, 25,000 muslims arrived in the Netherlands from Suriname. In 1985, the number of muslims of Surinamese origin in the Netherlands had gone down to 16,000! (Source: http://www.aartboekee.nl/De%20Islam.htm - in Dutch, but a source sympathetic to Islam, so should be treated as objective) The number of Dutch of Surinamese origin is generally estimated to be between 300,000 and 350,000. That puts the percentage of muslims among those leaving at somewhere between a maximum of 8.3 or a minimum of 4.6% (compare that to the 20% quoted here and the real 13% figure - so the muslims were more numerous among those staying). Note that most sources estimate the number of muslims among the Hindustani group in Suriname at no more than 10% (check the Dutch Suriname article, for instance). So, nice story about the boat, but not very representative of Suriname or even Islam in Suriname. And of course, there is no real source for this story. In other words, it is time for a clean-up. If nothing happens here in the next few days, I AM reverting. That is much better than adding POV and non-referenced flags.--Pan Gerwazy 18:30, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Precise number of Muslims.

This news letter almost jokingly writes about the exact number of Muslims in Suriname. Please have a good look at the entire page. It is not at all an anti-Muslim site, it is a news letter for Muslims!

For those who know some Dutch (others can verify by using a web translating program)

"Geachte lezers, In het ‘Moslimland’ Suriname worden er naar schatting tussen de 32.000 tot 83.000 Moslims vermist, ja gewoon SPOORLOOS, no joke. Tot deze constatering zijn wij gekomen na een aantal zaken op een rijtje te hebben gezet, en nodig achten om (loos) alarm te slaan. Wij vragen beleefd maar ernstig aan alle moslimsorganisaties om grootscheepse zoekacties op touw te zetten om te achterhalen waar de vermiste Moslims zich schuil houden, en vooral WAAROM. Ook willen wij hen adviseren een centraal alarmnummer in te stellen waar tipgevers informaties kunnen doorspelen. Okee, het minimum aantal vermisten van 32.000 en het maximum aantal van 83.000 is niet uit de lucht gegrepen, maar als volgt berekend, met als uitgangspunt het Algemeen Bureau voor de Statistiek. Volgens het ABS waren er in 2004 66.310 (13,5%) Moslims op een totale bevolking van 492.829. Volgens een artikel in maart 2008 van de Madjlies Moesliemien Suriname c.s. is 20% van de bevolking Moslim, oftewel 98.565; een verschil dus van 32.255. De website Arab News doet er een schepje bovenop. In een artikel d.d. 3-6-2008 over de aanvraag van leningen door Suriname bij de Islamic Development Bank, wordt gezegd dat van de 500.000 inwoners 30% moslims zijn, oftewel 150.000; een slordig verschil van 83.690."

Judging by Google, what seems to be going on here is a concerted effort by some people (both Islamists who want to get loans from Arab bankers and white Dutch racists who like any news that suggests that the Netherlands over being submerged not by the North Sea but by a never ending stream of Muslim immigrants) to exaggerate the number of Muslims both in Suriname and among Surinamese immigrants in the Netherlands. It is clear that Wikipedia has become a battle ground for such purposes.

I have also been able to find the origin of the 20% mistake: there is some kind of translation error in the English version of Ellen Bal's treatise on Hindustani and "Pakistani" immigrants in Suriname and the Netherlands: (at the bottom of page 196 and the top of page 197): "Presently, there are around 425,000 Muslims in Surinam and they constitute 20% of the total population of the country. They comprise the Javanese who came from the Indonesian Archipelago and have been living in the country for more than 50 years and there is also a growing Afro-Surinamese Muslim community. Most Muslims in Surinam are, however, from Indian descent." Note how the second sentence in the paragraph does not make any sense, and has no logical connection with the third sentence. And the total number in the first is completely crazy of course, since Suriname has about half a million inhabitants.

A possible explanation that would in fact make the numbers compatible with real statistics: 1) 425,000 is the total number of Surinamese citizens and Dutch citizens with a Surinamese past who are of Hindustani or "Indian" origin. 2) 20% of these are Moslims, which gets us to 85,000, but that includes Moslim Surinamese now living in the Netherlands. This figure is in fact attested by many sources, eg [1]

I suspect both Dutch and English wikipedia are part of a battleground here. The figure "quoted by Ellen Bal" cannot be used seriously because the "primary claim" (425,000 moslims) suggests a Suriname population of more than two million. Ellen Bal's English text may be RS on the cultural framework of Islam in Suriname, but as a source for actual numbers it is not to be trusted.

If no one challengess this obvious conclusion, I intend to edit the article to better reflect reality.

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