Talk:Anglesey

Name of article

Ynys Môn is now being used more and more in English (for example the parliamentary constituency) - should we relocate the article there as the name used by the majority of the local population, in line with many other place names? Timrollpickering 01:22, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Whilst the constituency and the preferred use by the council is Ynys Môn , Anglesey is still commonly used for the geographical island and by most non Welsh speakers on the island and by almost all other residents of the UK. As there is a Welsh wikepedia it would seem appropriate for the article on the Welsh wikipedia to be Ynys Môn and for it to be Anglesey here. Velela 07:59, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I'm a local and refer to the place as Anglesey, and to be honest from my experience you'd get strange looks if you used the Welsh name in English conversation and vice versa. I also don't like the "Ynys" bit because I'm from Holy Island, so we're not on the ynys proper. "Sir Fôn" or just "Môn" is better :) Dafyddyoung 16:00, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

That is very intersting because Sir Fôn is the only County in Wales whose boundary is easily related to its geography - i.e by its seaboard. But Wikipedia has dealt differently with Council areas as opposed to geographic areas. There are, for example separate articles for Solihull (borough) and for Solihull. The first dealing with the council and the second the place. Is there perhaps an argument for an article about the Island of Anglesey as a geographic entity (perhaps the article we have already- and there could also be another about Holy Island - there is already one for Ynys Llanddwyn) and, in addition, an article about the political entiity perhaps entitled Sir Fôn/Anglesey County Council ?

Mrs Trellis 22:25, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I'd say most counties in Wales have boundaries easily related to geography - i.e. Monmouthshire is between the rivers Wye, Severn, Rhymney and the Black Mountain. Quite an easy to define geographical area. In any case if there were to be an article on Anglesey County Council it would be called just that in the English-language Wikipedia. Owain 18:08, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Aye, so long as there's an English name for these places they should be referred to in English in the English-language Wikipedia. I've never seen the Ynys Llanddwyn entry before, should it not be under Llanddwyn Island? Another discussin for another talk page, I suppose. And back to the original point, when Ynys Môn is used more frequently in English it's hardly ever pronounced properly anyway. "Innis Moan" is what you're likely to hear on the Beeb... And there already is an article for Holy IslandDafyddyoung 11:23, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I think I agree with the OP, as 70% of the population of the Island is mostly Welsh speaking, shouldn't the artical be titled Ynys Môn? Three reasons for listing the artical as Ynys Môn

• The oldest native name of the island
• The majority of the island's inhabitants are Welsh speaking, thus the native name should have priority here.
• Both the Ynys Môn (UK Parliament constituency) and Ynys Môn (Assembly constituency) constituencies are listed as as Ynys Môn
• As a name, Ynys Môn is passing into English as regularly as Meirionnydd is for former Merionethshire, and as Ceredigion is for former Cardiganshire.

Per Wiki policy of Be Bold, changing for the above reasons.12.160.89.130 ♦Drachenfyre♦·Talk 11:28, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Regardless of the argument about whether the English or Welsh names should be used, the official name in English was changed in 1996 to Isle of Anglesey. The article should therefore be moved to that heading (at present Anglesey is a redirect from Isle of Anglesey). Skinsmoke (talk) 17:25, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

No objections in over 6 weeks. Page now moved. Skinsmoke (talk) 13:43, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Recently???

"Channel 4's popular 'Time Team' programme recently visited the island". Relative terms like "recently" should not appear in articles where there is no context to evaluate them in. Somebody may read this article in 10 or 100 years time... Please can someone find out more about the event mentioned and replace "recently" with a specific date.

Convent...

"Cadair Mynachdy (or Monachdy, i.e.. "chair of the monastery"; there is a Nanner, "convent," not far away)" I'm not entirely sure, but the Welsh for a convent is "cwfaint", isn't it? Dafyddyoung 11:26, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Etymology (inc. Removal of `Isle of Angles' explanation)

I have removed `(i.e. "Island of the Angles")' from the article because it looked like it referred to Môn (which, incidentally, appears in Roman (Latin) texts published long before the Angles so clearly has nothing to do with the Angles--as an aside, in Latin it also refers to the Isle of Wight--maybe something to mention).

I was going to clarify that the parenthesis removed referred to Anglesea. However, I also couldn't find anything on the WWW saying (except based on WP) saying that Anglesea or Anglesley means island of the Angles. How would sea become island?

The introductory sentence is too cluttered already anyway. If someone knows the story behind the etymology of Anglesey or whether the claim above is true, they should probably make an Etymology section in the article for reasonably verifiable etymological info.

Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley _talk

_contrib 13:44, 2005 May 7 (UTC) The ey or y suffix is widely used to signify island as in Bardsey, , Lundy, Ramsey, Caldey and possibly even Barry and Sully. It is probably the same derivation as Brownsea in Poole Harbour, Mersea in Essex, Isle of Wallney in Cumbria , Great Cumbrae Island and posibly even Wallasey on the Wirral. It may also be linked to the word eyot for an isaland in the River Thames. I don't know the eytmological derivation but there is little doubt that the English name for the Island - Anglesey does derive from Island of the Angles and its derivation probably greatly post dated the roman occupation. The derivation might be from the Old English Ieg meaning island.

Velela 15:44, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

It was Môn that I was claiming derived from Latin.Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley _{talk contrib} 14:26, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Please note the whole article on Anglesey needs rewriting as it is full of inaccuracies or is just plain inadequate. The 'connection' between druids and cromlechs was an early eighteenth century fantasy. The description of druids is wholly inadequate. The derivation of the name 'Anglesey' is now generally believed to be from a Norse personal name Ongull + s + ey (island). The historical section is generally lacking in perspective and detail. Please rewite! I would have a crack at it myself if I had time.

If that etymology is true then I'm going to reword the bit about the English being 'corrupted' from the ON. 'Corrupted' is always a bad word to use anyway, and this case the English might preserve older vowels. If the ON was originally *Angull, the [u] regularly mutates any preceding [a] to [ɔ] (ON spelling ǫ, which has become ö in modern Icelandic). ~~ Anon, 2 August 2006.

Anglesey may derive from Island of the Angles, from Angle combined with sey or say (Old Norse for island e.g. Rothesay, Shapinsay).

Thormod. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ThormodRaudhi (talk • contribs) 17:45, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

RAF Valley

Should some mention not be given to RAF Valley in this article?

MEM Factory

Should some mention not be given to the Eaton MEM factory in this article? I understand they are the 3rd largest employer on the isle, after the council and the aluminium factory>

That would make them the fourth biggest employer and I have never heard of them in any case. 145.253.108.22 16:34, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

You have not mentioned Wylfa they out employ MEM easily for now....

Removal of Draoi-Heil

This article contains a link to the article on Draoi-Heil. The linked article lacks factuality and credible links. Instead it misrepresents romanticist beliefs as a factual account of Druid practices. I am thus proposing that the link be removed and the History section modified to accommodate this. I won;t touch it right now, so that any wishing to do so may check out the article. I'll check back in a couple days from now to see if anyone has any objections. --Sidhebolg 05:07, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Caesar's Mona

In his Commentaries on the Conquest of Gaul, Julius Caesar mentions the island of Mona. The translator of the Penguin Classics edition I have writes that nobody is quite sure whether Caesar is referring to Anglesey or the Isle of Man. Does anybody know whether there's been any further research on this? --Charlene 05:03, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciation

Could you provide a pronunciation for the English name "Anglesey" as well? There has been a question on the German wikipedia as to how to pronounce that word (de:Wikipedia:Auskunft#Anglesey. Thanks in advance. --62.214.240.23 21:06, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Answer on de.wikipeda: ˈæŋglsɪ according to Gimson/Jones. --62.214.235.79 07:55, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Someone has, but they shouldn't have. WP:NOTADICTIONARY. It's really something to check Wiktionary for. — LlywelynII 10:27, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Climate

Since when has Anglesey had a humid climate? That sounds a bit rude, sorry! What I meant to ask is "where did you get that information from?" lol. Cls14 12:30, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Red Squirrels

I just removed the following from the introduction, which had recently been added by an IP address:

Anglesey ids the best place in the UK for protection against the red squirel and now have hardly any gray left.

Protection against the red squirel [sic]? If, indeed, Anglesey is the pre-eminent stronghold of the Red in the UK, then it could be mentioned, but not in the form above, which is inaccurate and poorly spelt. Carre 11:20, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Holyhead High School

Is there anyone using this page who might be able to start at least a short article on this school. As it was the first comprehensive school in Great Britain, it is certainly very worthy of note, but nothing exists as yet. Tafkam (talk) 00:41, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

School league table

I removed the 'league table' of school results because Estyn doesn't inspect schools annually, so the exam results cited won't necessarily be directly comparable. People may be aware that since 2001, the Assembly Government hasn't published individual school performance information.[1] Information on individual schools is still available in prospectuses and governors’ annual reports, but adding them all together to produce a local league table may violate WP:SYNTH. Pondle (talk) 23:49, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Schools

I've added Ysgol Penysarn to the list of schools, but the list is still incomplete and frankly rather dreary. What's the point in listing all the schools, when it's sufficient to simply say "there are 52 primary schools on the island"? Obscurasky (talk) 19:02, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

I totally agree. Wikipedia is not about lists of things. Reduce it as you suggest.  Velela  ^{Velela Talk}   19:08, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

 Done Obscurasky (talk) 08:40, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Title monstrosity

I recently moved the title of the article from 'Isle of Anglesey' back to its original title, 'Anglesey'. This complies with various sections of WP:NAME (particularly WP:COMMONNAME). It was moved back by SilkTork, who claimed that 'Isle of Anglsey' is the 'correct' name. @Silktork, I'm presuming you think it is 'correct' because you think the name is 'official'. Lemme point out a couple of things. 'Isle of Angelsey' is not an alternate name for Anglesey; it is Angelsey with a description (c/f "isle of Great Britain", "Republic of France", etc). Beside this, it really doesn't matter what the 'official' name of the island is, anyway ... as far as we are concerned on Wikipedia. And the construction "Isle of Anglesey" is an etymological monstrosity, -ey already meaning 'island'; this matters as not everyone is as lacking in place-name education as the bureaucrats employing this. Move back? Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 20:31, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

I agree that Anglesey is the simpler and better title. Srnec (talk) 01:31, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

WP:WALES and WP:UKGEO notified of this discussion. It would probably be a good idea to list this as a requested move for extra visibility. Bencherlite^Talk 08:06, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

I would also support a page move to Anglesey, for the above reasons. Just as a btw: The Welsh Academy Encyclopaedia lists the island as Anglesey. Daicaregos (talk) 08:07, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

(e/c)This arises because we have one article that covers both the geographical island, and the local authority. It would be possible to separate them out into distinct articles. If we don't do that, there is the problem that the local authority uses the term "Isle of Anglesey" as the English name of the authority. But, I don't think that local government terminology should override other considerations. It makes much more sense to me to use the name "Anglesey" for this article, as that is how the place is generally known, but I think we should consider whether there should be a separate article on the local authority. If there is, I'd favour the name Ynys Môn (local authority) anyway. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:11, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it's one of those odd situations where the title of the council ("Isle of Anglesey CC") is misleading, because the council's area includes areas other than the geographical island of Anglesey, e.g. Holy Island for Holyhead. Incidentally, Isle of Anglesey County Council already exists. Bencherlite^Talk 08:14, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Oops! - I hadn't noticed that, sorry. In that case, obviously use "Anglesey" for this article. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:17, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Since everyone seems agreed for now, I've moved it back to Anglesey and suggest that anyone wishing to use a different title make a formal move request.--Kotniski (talk) 08:32, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Not for nothing, Deke, since I completely agree that the article should be at Anglesey, but – given the hyperbolic tone – it's worth pointing out that you are completely wrong as far as the name of the county. "Isle of Anglesey" most certainly is the actual and official name and nothing like a simple matter of style. If subsequent legislation renamed it or the Ynys-Monites habitually omit the proper name from their official documents, it might be worth footnoting, but we should address the actual name of the county in the lede, regardless of its monstrosity for the six of us who know Old Norse place-name enclitics.  — LlywelynII 14:36, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Hmm. I've just looked at the ref quoted above (Local Government (Wales) Act 1994 Schedule I) and that seems to me to be saying that "Anglesey" / "Sir Fôn" is the name of a county and "Ynys Môn" / "Isle of Anglesey" is the name of a district. It doesn't say anywhere that "Isle of Anglesey County" is the name of anything. -- Dr Greg  talk  00:08, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

This piece of legislation provided names for the new counties, but left the door open for those counties to change their official names: so Caernarfonshire and Merionethshire became Gwynedd, Cardiganshire became Ceredigion, Aberconwy and Colwyn became Conwy, etc. I don't know if Anglesey became Isle of Anglesey using the same provision, and this is not noted in the legislation. "Isle of Anglesey" as a "district" refers to the 1972-1994 area, not to the name after 1994, so this doesn't prove the point that LlywelynII is trying to make here. Gareth (talk) 07:24, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Etymology section

Cleaned up with corrections. I've moved these two pieces here, since they didn't come with any explanation, translation, or source.

[original Brythonic name:] enisis mona.

[additional poetic name:] Clas Merddin.

If you can clarify and source either, feel free to reinsert them.  — LlywelynII 14:20, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Sources for article expansion

Some of the cites in the new etym section – the 1911 EB, the 1800s LE, &c – are quite out of date but may be worth combing through to pick up items for daughter articles or historical expansion concerning the island.  — LlywelynII 16:22, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Name of article revisited

I believe the article name should be changed to 'Ynys Mon'. User:Drachenfyre put it well in 2008 with this: 'The oldest native name of the island The majority of the island's inhabitants are Welsh speaking, thus the native name should have priority here. Both the Ynys Môn (UK Parliament constituency) and Ynys Môn (National Assembly for Wales constituency) constituencies are listed as as Ynys Môn As a name, Ynys Môn is passing into English as regularly as Meirionnydd is for former Merionethshire, and as Ceredigion is for former Cardigan'

This argument did not seem to be addressed. I would like to seek the views of others about this proposed change. LordFixit (talk) 17:08, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

I live on the island and can assure you that Ynys Môn isn't widely current in English locally (the English usually can't pronounce it anyway), and even in Welsh it conveys a suggestion of a formal register of speech. Môn, Ynys Môn, or Sir Fôn are all used in Welsh, and so at times is Anglesey. In English it's Anglesey practically every time. Richard Keatinge (talk) 22:43, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Richard. The majority of people speak Welsh in Ynys Mon, though. LordFixit (talk) 23:01, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Ynys Môn is a minority usage even in Welsh, though its hint of formality may make it suitable for an encyclopedia. It's an interesting question though: given the existence of a widely-used English name, should the native name take priority for an English-language article? Richard Keatinge (talk) 23:16, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

According to WP:COMMONNAME, we should use the name that appears most frequently in English-language reliable sources. For example we have an article called "Germany" even though most of the people who live there call it "Deutschland". -- Dr Greg  talk  00:36, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Ynys Môn is fine for the Welsh Wiki article. Here, no, it's not English and shouldn't be treated as such. The people using it in English are doing so as a nod to its Welsh inhabitants and simply using the Welsh name. See also China, not Zhongguo, Middle Kingdom, or 中国. — LlywelynII 10:47, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Yes per WP:USENGLISH we use the English name, not native name if one exists. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:54, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Born on Anglesey

In a recent edit, the name of Aled Jones was removed from the list of people born on Anglesey. As it happens, Aled is already well represented in the article and probably doesn't need to be on such a list. This does however point up a significant issue with what constitutes "born on Anglesey". For many years there was and is almost no maternity provision on Anglesey and most babies born to Anglesey parents were born at St David's Hospital in Bangor on the mainland and now at Ysbyty Gwynedd, also in Bangor. This arises simply because of an organisational decision by the local Health Board. I would suggest that under theses circumstances it is appropriate to assert that children born of parents living on Anglesey at the time of their birth are deemed to be " born on Anglesey". If we do not adopt a pragmatic solution, it will appear in future that for many years nobody of any note was ever born on the Island whereas very many notable people will have been born in Bangor. I would welcome views.  Velella  ^{Velella Talk}   23:49, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

People who weren't born on the island weren't born on the island. Seems pretty straightforward. — LlywelynII 10:45, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Demonym

Is there a widely or officially used demonym to describe people from Anglesey - in the same way as, say, "Lancastrian" describes people from Lancashire? I can't remember seeing one, though I'm sure others know better. Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:34, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Strange sentence

"The foundations of Caer Gybi as well as a fort at Holyhead are Roman, and the present road from Holyhead to Llanfairpwllgwyngyll may originally have been a Roman road.[citation needed]"

As far as I can tell Caer Gybi is a fort at Holyhead/Caergybi. so what's the second fort reference about? Perhaps someone can find a citation for the whole of this Roman paragraph. Sussexonian (talk) 14:45, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

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Island pedantry

The lead claims that Anglesey is the second most populous island in the British Isles, after Man. Surely it is the fourth most populous after Great Britain, Ireland and Man? Murgatroyd49 (talk) 14:29, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Better now? Bmcln1 (talk) 15:06, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Murgatroyd49 (talk) 15:54, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Main topic: County or Island

Is this article mainly for the modern county or the island? There is significant overlap between the two, meaning they're best as the same article. But in this edit @A.D.Hope changed the article lead to give primacy on the county. Not necessarily a bad edit, and in good faith but quite bold considering the article has been about the island since it was made in 2001. If this article is about the county, should it be renamed as Isle of Anglesey as that is the official county name? or the two be split? (but there would be a lot of overlap, so do not clearly support that). DankJae 22:57, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

You do have a point, and I've made an edit to the lead to try and balance the emphasis a little. The issue I've found is that the county 'naturally' takes precedence because it's both the larger area and because the differences between Holy Island and Anglesey are so slight that they can easily be referred to as a single unit. For example, the lead uses the county alone for demographic stats (e.g. density, Welsh speakers) and in the bulk of the lead paragraph, but refers to the island individually in the geography paragraph and in the lead paragraph when explaining the composition of the county. I think this makes sense, as the island is given prominence where it's distinct from the county but treated as part of the larger area where the differences are minimal.

Personally I don't think there needs to be a split; as you say, the amount of overlap would be high, and I think we can successfully cover both the island and the county by using precise language. I can't say I have a strong opinion on the name, as both options have pros and cons. A.D.Hope (talk) 11:42, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

• I'd weakly support splitting, Holy Island is of a reasonable size compared to Anglesey and while it can be argued its connected to Anglesey by a bridge so is Anglesey to the mainland. Probably use Anglesey (county) to also cover the older county not just the principal area. Crouch, Swale (talk) 02:58, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

Myth

Myth has it that King Mynydd didn't believe in the stories about dragons in Wales. To prove to him wrong a Dragon melted the rock between Anglesey and North Wales this separated them ever since. 92.10.20.171 (talk) 12:24, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

@92.10.20.171 is this myth backed up by any scientific research to do with the dating of the seperation of Anglesey from mainland Wales, also are there any sources you can provide, books, websites etc? Cltjames (talk) 19:06, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Proposed infobox collage

DankJae's (first) proposal

Proposal 2: including Holyhead

Proposal 3

Proposal 4

Proposal 5 (Celtic Gateway)

Proposal 6 (Parys Mountain)

Following the discussion resulting in WP:WLSCOUNTYCOLLAGE inline with UKGEO, and the expectation that multiple images would eventually be added to the infobox in a possible dispute. To get the ball rolling, I propose the following to be added in the infobox using {{multiple image}}.

Order: Use existing image first, to ensure continuity over Page Preview. The current image seems fine to remain. Open to replacement.
General: To expand the coverage of the images, I added an image of Beaumaris Castle, a notable man-made structure, and a nice looking image from the west. (Tŵr Mawr Lighthouse) Would be also fine with any recommendation of a inland image to replace the lighthouse.

Be free to suggest better quality images of the same landmarks, and would happly apply. Be free to also suggest using different criteria and landmarks and would happily discuss what is best to represent the county (the main topic of this article seems to be the county).

If no opposition is raised, I would boldly insert it on 10 December. Opted for a discussion, considering previous attempts (on others) led to a dispute. Pinging those I feel are connected to the discussion specifically on Anglesey, however you do not need to respond. ​​​ DankJae 21:36, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

@DankJae maybe more of a contrast with one of the coast or a scene from nature, then one medieval, Beaumaris gateway picture is good, and then one of a town, maybe the Newborough image? Cltjames (talk) 22:20, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

@Cltjames, Any ideas for the nature? All I know is the island is known for red squirrels. Agree a town image would be nice, couldn't decide which though and so far can't find one that stands out, and ofc prefer the best image I could find, I'll see if there is a good image of Newborough (or nearby) and replace the lighthouse with it. Are you open to removing the existing image (top one)? Just kept it cause I'm used to it.

Be free to suggest any individual images, in the end, there are so many I could've missed. DankJae 22:28, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

The image of Ynys Llanddwyn is beautiful, but I'm concerned it's indistinct at that size and repeats the coastal theme. What about Admiralty Arch in Holyhead? I'll be the first to say it needs saving from its current fate as a somewhat sad car park ornament, but it is at least a distinctive building in the county's largest town. I did look at Llangefni, but it doesn't have much by way of monuments except its clock tower. A.D.Hope (talk) 22:54, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

@A.D.Hope, yeah looked at Holyhead, and struggled. The arch is notable but in a sad state, so not sure. Yeah purely included Ynys Llanddwyn cause it was the best images I can find at all, but agree it duplicates the coast. Llangefni doesn't have anything distinctive (so far) so also struggled for it. Like @Cltjames, suggested just a general image of a town, although cannot find anything of Newborough yet (that isn't just a grey street). Nonetheless, happy to discuss further or any ideas. DankJae 23:20, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Did also consider Plas Newydd (such as this image). DankJae 23:26, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

@DankJae I think that's a good image and important to Anglesey. What about the Aberffraw drone image, that's pretty special... And as for Newborough, I thought there was a good background view including a normal Anglesey housing terrace and Snowdonia, only, the white van spoils the pic a bit. Cltjames (talk) 20:05, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Nice Plas Newydd image

Cltjames (talk) 20:12, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Looking at Wikimedia commons, some of the ariel drone shots by Llywelyn2000 of the Marquess of Anglesey column seem good...

Column view

Another column view

Cltjames (talk) 20:21, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

So like this? I find Plas Newydd to suit it better, because for some reason the column becomes blurry. @A.D.Hope and Cltjames:; do you still want to keep the first image? DankJae 22:57, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

@DankJae the coast image is just right. to reiterate, there should be a contrast between nature, old (Beaumaris) and new. Cltjames (talk) 23:32, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Either Beaumaris or Plas Newydd, not both Murgatroyd49 (talk) 09:53, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

I'd prefer Beaumaris if having to choose, @Murgatroyd49, got an idea for a third? Ideally inland? DankJae 10:20, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

I also prefer Beaumaris. In the infobox collages I've proposed I've generally avoided country houses, as they don't generally say much about the wider county beyond 'an earl built a nice house here in 1753.'

Personally I still quite like Admiralty Arch, even in its current state. Anglesey doesn't have much by way of modern landmarks – the only one which jumps to mind is the Celtic Gateway bridge, but I'm not sure images of it work at collage size. A.D.Hope (talk) 10:54, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

When most people think of Anglesey, they think of druids or LlanfairPG! There is always File:James Pringle Weavers of Llanfairpwllgwyngyll, Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch, Holy Island (507294) (32769177880).jpg Murgatroyd49 (talk) 11:33, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

@Murgatroyd49, true with Llanfair PG did consider it (and very aware of it), and tbh that image is good. Wouldn't mind that. Plus I guess Anglesey's most iconic site arguably.

Not sure how druids can be represented on the other hand. Celtic Gateway seems a bit too modern and recent, while the Admiralty Arch's state puts it down (unfortunately). I understand opposition to Plas Newydd (didn't initially include it), Anglesey isn't known for its country houses as much. DankJae 11:39, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Does Llanfair PG represent the county well? Is 'one of the villages here has a long name' the first impression we want to give of Anglesey?

Celtic Gateway was built in 2006, so it's not particularly new, and it's also one of the few distinctive modern structures on the island. It's a more aesthetically pleasing representation of the island's modern economy than the actual port of Holyhead, at any rate. A.D.Hope (talk) 12:14, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

2006 compared to a structure from almost 800 years ago is relatively new, it doesn't have to be built yesterday. Llanfair PG may be the only impression of Anglesey for some, as having the longest place-name in Europe is probably more notable than the Gateway, which isn't for trade but local pedestrians, not a first or recurring form of architecture? and unfortunately just connects one part of Holyhead to another part of Holyhead (so makes more sense at Holyhead). So cannot see how it represents Anglesey's economy? sorry. The Stanley Embankment is probably the more important intra-Anglesey link, while other bridges lead out of the county. Still open to other ideas (but nothing seems obvious), but Llanfair PG at least has the (long-standing) fame the others do not.

@Cltjames got any opinions on the new ones suggested? DankJae 12:44, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

My rule of thumb (which I appreciate isn't a guideline) is to include a modern landmark where possible, as I find it helps prevent a collage from becoming overly twee. Some counties don't have any significant modern landmarks, but the Celtic Gateway fits the bill for Anglesey – I think I'm correct in saying it was part of a plan to regenerate the town, and includes public artworks as well as creating a shorter route between the centre and the train station and ferry terminal.

Or we could just stick Bryn Celli Ddu in and call it a day. A.D.Hope (talk) 17:50, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

I think we should resort to the earlier option of a town/village. Many English counties do not fit that rule. I just find the Gateway not really meaning anything. DankJae 21:54, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

What about Parys Mountain? such as this image, to highlight Anglesey's industrial heritage? DankJae 22:08, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

That's a good option which shows an overlooked but significant aspect of Anglesey, I'd definitely support it. A.D.Hope (talk) 22:13, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Having said that, overall I think the coast/Beaumaris/Holyhead (arch or bridge) combination is best. Holyhead might not be the most photogenic town, but it's the island's major settlement so I'm prepared to compromise a little on image quality to represent it. A.D.Hope (talk) 22:26, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

@DankJae I think a good point about Llanfairpwll is that it is world famous, even if it isn't a great pic, it has significance. I would stick to contrasting images, old, new etc. I think something medieval would he better than Bronze age, e.g. Bryn Celli. And feel Beaumaris best represents the island's history. So, the coast, castle and contemporary image i.e. Llanfairpwll. Cltjames (talk) 22:07, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

@Cltjames, are you supporting Llanfairpwll or Bryn Celli? You mentioned both? DankJae 22:09, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

@DankJae Llanfairpwll and not Parys sorry. Cltjames (talk) 22:15, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

@Murgatroyd49, you still prefer Llanfairpwll? Or ok to consider Parys, Gateway or Bryn Celli? DankJae 22:22, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

What is the purpose of the collage, If it is to give a flavour of the area covered by the article then LLanfairpwll is definitely appropriate. It is unique to the island and gently introduces the idea that the Welsh language is important there. Bryn Celli is of interest but not particularly unusual in Britain. Parys I am equivocal about, in image terms it conflicts with the coastal view. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 08:53, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

The guidelines are linked at the top, but the relevant bit is:

The images selected for the collage should represent the county thematically, for example by including prominent cultural, historic, or natural landmarks. It is desirable for at least one major settlement to be represented. Images should be carefully selected to ensure they are legible at small size, and where possible they should form a coherent whole.

A.D.Hope (talk) 09:05, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

It was a rhetorical question… Llanfairpwll fulfills the cutural bit, Beaumaris the historical and a coastal view the natural landmark. We are left with the major settlement which ought to be Holyhead. Interesting that no-one has suggested one of the iconic Menai strait bridges yet. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 09:13, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

I don't think Llanfair PG is a good representation of Welsh culture on the island, given the name is essentially a Victorian gimmick. Something like Oriel Ynys Môn would be much better, but unfortunately it's housed in a very plain building.

The Menai bridges are half in Gwynedd, and photos of them tend to be from the Anglsey side so that the mountains across the strait are in shot. I have looked, but would rather consider other options. A.D.Hope (talk) 09:30, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

I wouldn't worry too much about it being a Victorian gimmick, it worked! Most of so called Scots culture is also a Victorian gimmick but I don't see them abandoning clan tartans and kilts anytime soon, too lucrative. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 09:53, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

The Llanfair sign would be fine as a body image, but as a collage image it's a bit reductive. On a practical note I also think the sign will be tricky to read at the size it will be displayed. A.D.Hope (talk) 10:01, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

To illustrate:

Proposal with LlanfairPG

Point taken. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 10:20, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

I'm fine with Llanfair PG, because all the other cultural proposals so far mean much less or have also been opposed. Everyone has different interpretations of culture (some counties have horses as an image for some reason). I just find the gateway as being so insignificant (as of now), it seems very odd to have it. While Holyhead seems the obvious choice, settlements from Amlwch to Llangefni can also be used, while Llanfair is the 6th biggest, so possibly a "major" one? Intentionally did not suggest the Menai Strait Bridges because half of them are in Gwynedd, with many of the best images I found are pointing to Eryri/Snowdonia rather than Anglesey. Ofc, those images could be added to Menai Strait's infobox if needed. Or possibly at Gwynedd if the balance is right there. DankJae 13:00, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

I think @Murgatroyd49 agrees with me that the Llanfair PG image won't work at infobox size, regardless of its cultural merits. I'm not set on the Celtic Gateway, but I'm also struggling to find anything else which fits the theme of 'modern Anglesey'. It may be that there's nothing suitable, it wouldn't be the first time (e.g. Herefordshire).

If I remember correctly Devon ended up with horses because I wanted to include Dartmoor and thought it would be more interesting to include the ponies; over the border in Cornwall it just happened that there was a good image of Bodmin moor which included its ponies, so South-West England has ended up a bit equine. A.D.Hope (talk) 13:35, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Like if we need to (although we don't have to) represent Holyhead, may be its Harbour Office, Fish Dock, from above, from Breakwater, of Breakwater or Near South Stack? But if none of those fit (yes some aren't "modern"), then I guess not Holyhead. Can't think of anything else. Although I like this being put on top and other two moved down, just for aesthetics. DankJae 14:13, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

I appreciate you finding the other images, but I'm going to stick with proposal 2 as my preference. We all like the coast image, the Beaumaris one is decent, and the arch tones in with the castle, is in Holyhead, and is very legible even at small size. Yeah it's a bit untidy, but at infobox size most people won't even notice.

Oh, and I do like that last image. Maybe a tad grey for the infobox, but in the body or at Rhosneigr? Go for it. A.D.Hope (talk) 22:28, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

If I have to choose the Arch or Gateway I guess the arch, but ofc prefer others, but what do @Cltjames and @Murgatroyd49 think, to finally settle this? Apologies this has been too long. DankJae 23:09, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Again, I'm going with old or new, the arch is new compared to the gateway. Beaumaris Castle holds it's historical value and would have a better standing against a newer attraction such as the arch. Cltjames (talk) 07:16, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Just to be clear, Cltjames, the arch is the structure in proposal 2, and the gateway is the structure in proposal 5. You favour proposal 2? A.D.Hope (talk) 10:20, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

@A.D.Hope proposal 5 is good. Cltjames (talk) 16:01, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

I think the arch is visually confusing with Beaumaris in a collage so, of the two, probably the gateway. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 08:35, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

@A.D.Hope: Gateway it is. DankJae 16:21, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Apparently so. I won't lie, it's not my favourite, but it'll do the job. A.D.Hope (talk) 16:44, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Unless someone else adds it, I'll wait till the 10th so a full week passes, incase any one else joins, which they are encouraged too. DankJae 16:55, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Absolutely, good idea A.D.Hope (talk) 18:36, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Added, no further comments raised DankJae 19:32, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

What does this mean?

"The geography of the Isle of Anglesey is a contrast between the relatively flat interior of the two main islands and their varied coastlines, large parts of which are an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty." - starting para 3 of article lede section. Geopersona (talk) 08:14, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

@A.D.Hope DankJae 15:07, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Anglesey and Holy Island have flat middles but varied coastlines, basically. A.D.Hope (talk) 15:11, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

I've now reworded the passage, as it was a bit clunky. A.D.Hope (talk) 19:07, 10 January 2024 (UTC)