Talk:Isometric video game graphics

Article's origin

This article originally evolved in the Isometric projection article. It is now split because there is a whole category of articles related to this subject. I do think such a category needs a separate article. -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 21:30, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Cabinet image

Nice article! However, I think the image of the wooden cabinet does not express the differences clearly enough, especially for users who either don't know what isometric means, or only understand the misusage of the term. The colored axes in the image are small and somewhat indistinct. SharkD (talk) 07:40, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree. I wonder if we could find 3 pictures from games clearly representing the projection - given the article topic it would make much more sense than the wooden cabinet. --Allefant (talk) 00:06, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

I replaced the image with a new one I created myself. Hopefully you also feel it's an improvement. SharkD  Talk  00:21, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, much better. I would even replace the other uses of the cabinet one with this new one. I've always been bothered by how the cabinet's "dimetric" is not symmetric to the up axis. --Allefant (talk) 04:12, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Broaden scope

Further, it might be good to broaden the scope of the article to "Graphical projection in video games" to include perspective and other projections. SharkD (talk) 20:59, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

As you can see, I created a new template, {{VG Graphics}}. The articles aren't very cohesive or well-written unfortunately. SharkD  Talk  06:37, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Suggest rename/move to "Isometric projection in video games"

I suggest renaming/moving the article to Isometric projection in video games since the article is more about the projection(s) used and not so much about the video games themselves per se. SharkD  Talk  03:30, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Support yes I agree, The article should be, and is, describing the projection not the games. Carlwev (talk) 12:50, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Things I want added

The article is well written; I want to add some things but am unsure off how to without ruining the flow of the article.

1. rotation of view
2. hidden paths
3. isometric looking 3d
4. common control elements

Basically a paragraph about the common use of rotating the view 90 degrees in many games. And the accidental or deliberate hiding of things from view, that is fairly common and well known. Perhaps a paragraph like this maybe.

In games that use isometric graphics, large or tall objects, walls and buildings can block the view of smaller, shorter, objects, or objects and pathways that are lower down. It is possible a hazard could be hidden on a path that looks safe, and there maybe pathways present where it looks like there are none. In city building games it may be impossible to click on a particular building if it is completely hidden behind another. Games such as those in the SimCity series and Spindizzy Worlds allow the player to rotate the view 90 degrees and see the environment from 4 different angles, so that things that are hidden from view in one angle are visible from another. In some games such as Landstalker where the view cannot be rotated, most areas are not obscured from view and those that are obscured are either not accessible or empty of any objects and hazards. However there are small number of pathways that are deliberately hidden from view behind walls or trees, especially to secret items or in later, more difficult parts of the game.

Also a paragraph about later games that have true 3d graphics with perspective but use angles and views that look just like isometric. A view from slightly but not fully above so the vanishing point of the perspective is off screen. The environment uses square tiles or is at least made up of mostly right angles and the camera faces the corners of the tiles not the straight edge. Games, often in a series that previously used isometric view, like Civilization 4, Transport Tycoon on the PlayStation has isometric and 3d views, Dark Savior, Vandal Hearts which also has the rotating the view 90 degrees.

Another common thing - Pathways are always pointing diagonal, up to the right not straight up, some games will make the up direction on the joypad move up to the right following the paths in game. Marble Madness gave the option of having this option on or off. Rings of Power had the option of having up going up to the right or up going up to the left called "lefty" and "righty" controls in the game.

Carlwev (talk) 10:32, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Good ideas. Note that SimCity 4 uses true 3D geometry as well (and maybe SC3K... at least some of the time... though I've personally created 2D sprites for it using one of their toolkits.) SharkD  Talk  06:49, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

It would also be interesting to show a side-by-side comparison of CivII and CivIV, or Diablo and Diablo III, but I'm afraid the article already is kind of crammed full of images. SharkD  Talk  07:13, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Wasteland 2 dispute

See here for a recent dispute over the Wasteland 2 article. SharkD  Talk  18:59, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Screenshot

Thought this screenshot could be of use in the future. czar ⨹ 04:18, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

That's a good image, thanks. SharkD  Talk  23:08, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Rotatic

"By the late 1990s, RPGs like Vandal Hearts (1996), Final Fantasy Tactics (1997) and Breath of Fire III (1997) were using 3D graphics to create rotatic isometric environments where the player could freely rotate the camera."

What are "rotatic isometric environments"? I don't think "rotatic" is a word. 71.46.106.61 (talk) 10:49, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

I reworked this section and removed the reference to "rotatic isometric environment". SharkD  Talk  22:20, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Isometric games are still being made!

Quote: "With the advent of more powerful graphics systems, isometric projection has become less common, instead being replaced by perspective projection." We might want to also mention retro indie titles, or RPGs like TToN, that still opt for isometric perspective. SharkD  Talk  06:34, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

More images

File:Fallout2-reactor.jpg Interplay Entertainment helped popularize the use of an overhead, axonometric view in its RPGs during the late 1990s and early 2000s. Pictured here is Fallout 2 (1998).

I want to use this image, but the article already has a lot of images already. Also, this article mentions Shadowrun Returns as one of the best-looking isometric games. It could make a good addition as well. SharkD  Talk  03:48, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

Galleries for other projections

I wanted to create additional galleries for other projections, such as oblique projections. However, I don't know of any FOSS games/images that use them. SharkD  Talk  17:56, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

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Requested move 23 June 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no clear consensus to move the page to any particular title at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 18:52, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

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Isometric graphics in video games and pixel art → Isometric graphics – The title is currently unnecessary long and clunky. There's no other "isometric graphics" article, isometric projection already has a hatnote to this article. soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 11:37, 23 June 2018 (UTC) --Relisting. Iffy★Chat -- 14:22, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

• Comment: Couldn't "isometric graphics" refer to images which depict isometric projection, such as CAD drawings, schematics, etc.? I feel like isometric graphics is correctly redirecting to isometric projection. I agree that the current video game topic is clunky, but I don't think the proposed move is the way to handle it. Would isometric video game be better? The pixel art stuff is already covered in pixel art (isometric pixel art already redirects there). -- Netoholic @ 21:18, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Isometric video game graphics might be okay. SharkD  Talk  23:09, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 13 July 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move to Isometric computer graphics. There is a unanimous consensus for a move away from the present title, and of the options discussed, this one is the best supported. In closing, I noted the issues raised by SMcCandlish that "Isometric video game" implies a type of video game whereas "Isometric computer graphics", like the former title "Isometric graphics in video games and pixel art", does not. I also note SharkD's objection to "Isometric computer graphics" on the grounds of potential confusion with Isometric projection, though that is also an issue with the former title. There may be a better title; if one is identified, feel free to start another RM.--Cúchullain ^t/c 13:57, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

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Isometric graphics in video games and pixel art → Isometric video game – Title is long and clunky, and would be better understood and useful as an internal wikilink if it described instead this video game presentation style/genre (much like first-person shooter or side-scrolling video game). Netoholic @ 22:13, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

• Support move to Isometric video game. That seems okay. SharkD  Talk  23:05, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

  It's not.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  09:18, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

• Move to Isometric computer graphics. Isometric graphics redirects to Isometric projection and should continue to do so. Not all pixel art is video-game related (see, e.g. Diesel Sweeties). The proposed Isometric video game would be an abject failure as a disambiguator, since it's actually a genre of video game (two, actually, plus subgenres), using isometric graphics. Another (uncommon) usage has nothing at all to do with the graphics, but rather with a large number of in-game stats that have to be raised isometrically to remain competitive. (I'm not sure which article we're covering it at, under what terms.) Thus, Isometric video game needs to be a disambiguation page with entries for: Isometric computer graphics, Isometric platform game, Isometric role-playing game, and wherever it is we're covering incremental, competitive, stats-raising games.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  09:29, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

  A move to Isometric video game places this in the position of being a WP:CONCEPTDAB for everything you've mentioned, but your move confuses the topic with CAD design and other non-game uses of isometric graphics. -- Netoholic @ 09:47, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose move to Isometric computer graphics. Platform_game#Isometric_platform_game has zero citations. There is also nowhere an article or section on Wikipedia that says Isometric role-playing game is a genre. I don't think it is useful to the reader to treat them as such. The use of isometric graphics in pixel art can be explained in the article, as is already done currently. Lastly, there is too much overlap between isometric computer graphics and isometric graphics. There's no reason the former should deal only with video games and pixel art, when 99.9% of the time the perspective used isn't even isometric. You're just going to confuse people interested in CAD and architecture. SharkD  Talk  01:20, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
• Support move to Isometric computer graphics, with dab page at Isometric video game. A lack of citations for a section is not a reason for it not to be included in a disambig page. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:57, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

  Yes it is. A dab page is supposed to point somewhere, and that somewhere (or those somewheres) needs to have citations. SharkD  Talk  18:38, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

@Cuchullain: Umm, why did you do this move? The discussion was 2 for and 2 against. In fact, there were also 2 people who wanted to move to Isometric video game (the original suggestion). Not a wide enough margin to show consensus, I think. Thanks. SharkD  ☎  08:32, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

I've expanded my closing statement. There was clear consensus to move from the former title, and of the options I judged this one to be the best argued. If there's another option (such as "Isometric video game graphics", which you mentioned above) that may be better, feel free to start another RM.--Cúchullain ^t/c 14:21, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Replacement images

I made these two images:

• 
• 

They're meant to replace the first two images, and are meant to be companions to the blue images later on in the article. Should I go ahead and switch them? SharkD  Talk  06:59, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 7 September 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved as requested per the discussion below. Kraose (talk) 15:47, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

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Isometric computer graphics → Isometric video game graphics – Relisted as per Wikipedia:Move review/Log/2018 July. The suggested title 1. describes the topic of the article adequately; 2. avoids confusion with several arguably more important non-video game uses of isometric computer graphics, such as in computer aided drafting, descriptive geometry, etc. that the current title suffers from; 3. avoids confusion with isometric gameplay (no citations?), isometric role-playing game, isometric platformer, etc. that User:Netoholic's earlier suggestion suffers from. I prefer the original title at Isometric graphics in video games and pixel art, but there was consensus to change it to something else. ➧datumizer  ☎  02:21, 7 September 2018 (UTC) --Relisting. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 ^{talk to me | my contributions} 22:29, 17 September 2018 (UTC)--Relisting. —usernamekiran(talk) 00:29, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

Further, 4. the parent article to this one is Video game graphics, and other sibling articles such as First person (video games), Full motion video based game, Graphic adventure game, Side-scrolling video game, Stereoscopic video game, Text-based game, Tile-based video game and Vector game are all clear in their labeling as having to do with games. ➧datumizer  ☎  21:47, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

• I have to say that I would have also preferred Isometric graphics in video games and pixel art, as losing the pixel art aspect from the title is unfortunate. Another option would have been Isometric computer graphics (art) (assuming a disambiguation would be proper) or Isometric graphics in digital art (referring to video game graphics as art). This all being said, I support this move, as it is clear and specific enough. Pixel art is highly inspired by video game graphics, after all. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 14:42, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose. The current title was agreed in the RM above, with the reasoning that not all isometric computer graphics applications are video-game related, and that seems to be true. Current title is the best one.  — Amakuru (talk) 07:53, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

• Though I'm sure at least some of the information in this article could be applied to isometric computer graphics outside of artistic purposes, the article currently doesn't do this at all. Each paragraph in the article currently refers to video game graphics specifically (except for the last two paragraphs). Do you think the article should be written with a more general approach, focusing less on video games specifically? ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 12:51, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
• As per Wikipedia:Move review/Log/2018 July, there was no agreement last time. Hence this relisting. Quote: "While consensus has rejected the former title (and no request to bring it back should be made lightly), there is no consensus for the title actually chosen". Also, I don't understand your reasoning. The current title muddies the waters further than the proposed title, making it appear as if the article is about non-video game concepts like CAD or true isometric projection, which it isn't. This article is about video games, and a little bit about pixel art, and I personally think pixel art is by and large a homage to video games. Further, not all things having to do with pixel art involve computers. See [1], [2] and [3]. ➧datumizer  ☎  06:19, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

• I'll support this for the arguments stated to get this moving along. I don't view the existence of "isometric" graphics outside video games to be an issue for the title. Despite pixel art being mentioned in the lead, this article is only about video games and contains no information on any other use of the graphics. "Isometric video game graphics" does help distinguish from isometric projection in other computer uses that are not video game related such as computer-aided design.--Cúchullain ^t/c 14:28, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose. The fundamental technology that is the topic here is not specific to game contexts, and I see no reason to constrain the title to imply to the contrary. --В²C ☎ 19:39, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

• relisting comment: this discussion has been open for 29 days as of the second relisting. In case there are no further substantial arguments, this should be closed as no consensus. Regards, —usernamekiran(talk) 00:29, 6 October 2018 (UTC) (the relister)

  I don't understand. Three people are in favor of the move and two are not. How is this not consensus? Further, the current title was not reached by consensus, and so should not be treated as if it was. ➧datumizer  ☎  06:20, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

• Support but prefer the more concise and expandable isometric video game - The pixel art aspect is a minor aside. The article should describe this presentation style of video game, which both the proposed and my suggested concise form communicates. I think there can be room for a split where one article is about the game genre as this one mostly is, and a separate article about the intricacies and technical aspects of the graphics themselves which the current title is more appropriate for. Post-move, I suggest stubbing/splitting. -- Netoholic @ 09:53, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

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"Isometric perspective" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Isometric perspective has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 July 18 § Isometric perspective until a consensus is reached. CopperyMarrow15 (talk) 01:44, 18 July 2023 (UTC)