Talk:Israeli pound

Features for the blind.

I ran across a mention of this feature in an ebay auction. It appears quite clear to me that that's what it's used for, I just can't for the life of me find a source. If someone else with more expertise in the matter has a book about this, I'm pretty sure it'll be mentioned there, but I haven't found an online source. (As an aside, does this kind of thing count as original research if it's about something that's obvious on the face of it, and has other references that I just can't find at the moment?) Ardyn (talk) 11:15, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

The Bank of Israel pages on the Shekel note that it continued the previous currency's provisions for the blind but doesn't go into great detail on the point. — LlywelynII 06:16, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Meaning of "Lira"

Above I see evidence of a silly move war, between calling the article "Israeli Lira" and "Israeli Pound". I'm really surprised to see that the article is missing completely any discussion of the fact that "Lira" means "Pound" - see Lira. Mentioning this fact is many times more important than whether the article's name contain the word "Lira" or "Pound"! 12:59, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

External links modified

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Name

Hebrew plural

Apparently I have corrected an error that has been "uncorrected" previously. In normal Hebrew, the adjective must be plural if the noun is plural. The feminine singular "lira yisraelit" becomes the feminine plural "lirot yisraeliot". This plural Hebrew form can be clearly seen in the picture of the 5 Lirot note which appears with the article. 208.100.198.168 08:04, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

The previous incorrect alteration of the Hebrew plural seems to have been unintentional. :o) 208.100.198.168 08:11, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Lira vs pound

Let us be perfectly clear about this. We cannot have an article called "Israel pound" when that name ceased to be used on the currency in 1955, 25 years before the currency ceased to circulate. The currency was always called the lira and that is the only sensible name to use in the article title.
Dove1950 20:16, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Dove. Anyone who's interested, please take a look at Wikipedia:WikiProject Numismatics/Style. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 01:13, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

It was called the Israeli/Israel pound in English right until 1980, not 1955. See the OFFICAL Bank of Israel's website here and find me the word "lira". It is called the לירה ישראלית in Hebrew (lira yisraelit), in English it was called the Israel pound, show proof otherwise. Epson291 01:37, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

There is an established guideline. Please discuss the guideline as rules, instead of one particular instance. The current standing rule is to use <Adjectival country name> <denomination> and "Use the local name for the denomination even if there is an English translation". This principle has been applied to various krones, which means "crown" in English. We have Czech koruna but not Czech crown. We also have Samoan tala, where tala is the Samoan equivalent of the English dollar. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 02:01, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

What's the reason for this? It's not so much of an "equivalance" as it what it was in English, primarily because after the Turks lost control of the area of Palestine it became under British control. I see that is a guideline but what is the reason when standard Wikipedia practice is to

“ Name your pages in English and place the native transliteration on the first line of the article unless the native form is more commonly recognized by readers than the English form. ”

"Israeli pound" gets 16,300 results, "Israeli lira" gets only 927, which means Israeli pound is 18 times more popular, I don't understand why the guideline would be to do the foreign name. No one in English would search for Israeli lira they would search for Israeli pound if familar with the English lanaguge, which after all, this is the English Wikipedia. Epson291 01:13, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

English name

There seems to be some confusion over the English name of this currency. On banknotes before 1955, it was "Israel pound", not "Israeli pound", see this picture of a note from the period [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dove1950 (talk • contribs) 10:31, 23 April 2007

Regardless, it should be "Israeli (unit)", not "Israel (unit)". --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 01:19, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Sigh.... after so many chaotic moves, now it requires an admin even if I compromise on "Israeli pound". People, please discuss before move war. Move war is worse than revert war. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 02:06, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree it should be "Israeli (unit)" in this case "Israeli pound" (which I had done before), but user Dove disagreed. The only thing I'm concerned about is why the Hebrew term is being used as the articles title in an English Wikipeida. I speak Hebrew, and would say it should be לירה ישראלית, on the Hebrew Wikipedia, but this is English Wikipedia so the English name should be used! (And it's not English equivalance, it's the English word because it stems from the original British Palestine Pound, It was simply not called the lira when speaking Englsih.) Epson291 02:39, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

There's no need to compromise with Israel pound or Israeli pound, it's Israeli lira. Apologies if any extra admin has been caused by ensuring that this article has the correct title, although I have fixed one double redirect. The reason we use the local name is because that is the real name. It would be disastrous for any encyclopaedia, especially one whose veracity is often questioned, to sacrifice accuracy for "popularity". Users typing in Israeli pound will be redirected to Israeli lira and will learn that lira was the local name and that the name pound was only used on the money for a few years.
Dove1950 19:21, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Can you guys please conduct a proper page move survey instead of getting into a revert war about this? The numismatic naming convention has never been voted on and has little weight. It should not be used as a sole determinant of a page name. -Will Beback · † · 20:08, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Requested move (2007)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Israeli lira → Israeli pound — As per Wikipedia:Naming conventions policy "Name your pages in English and place the native transliteration on the first line of the article unless the native form is more commonly recognized by readers than the English form." Israeli pound is both the more common English name (18 times more common on Google [16,300 for Israeli pound vs. 927 for Israeli lira) and used by the Bank of Israel (the government's central bank) in English on all series of the currency until it's demise in 1980, as well as in English media. Yes, לירה ישראלית (lira yisraelit) is the offical name in Hebrew, it just is not the case that it was called this in English. The Israeli pound is a direct descendent of the Palestine pound. Epson291 04:08, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Survey

Add  # '''Support'''  or  # '''Oppose'''  on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~. Please remember that this is not a vote; comments must include reasons to carry weight.

Support

1. Strong Support as above Epson291 04:09, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
2. Support per nomination and WP:COMMON. —  AjaxSmack  02:20, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose. Wikipedia:WikiProject_Numismatics/Style#Articles about a specific country's currency is clear on the issue: "Use the local name for the denomination even if there is an English translation". Even if this does not hold any weight, I believe the last ISO code for the currency was ILR (changed from ILP), i.e. Israeli Lira rather than Israeli Pound. Personally, I have never heard anyone use the phrase "Israeli Pound". Number 57 10:46, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
2. Oppose per Number 57. —Nightstallion (?) 11:10, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
3. Oppose. Though I have heard the phrase Israeli Pound, that was only outside of Israel. The obsolete currency in Israel was always referred in the land itself as the Lira. Therefore I oppose per the objections of my colleagues above. --Valley2city^₪‽ 16:24, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
4. Oppose The arguments above are all valid and here's another to throw into the mix. In Hebrew, the name of the Palestine pound was פונט, which is roughly "pont" and is obviously equivalent to pound. This was changed to לירה (lira) when Israel began issuing money.
   Dove1950 22:45, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
5. Oppose per arguments above. Note similar articles such as Italian lira. Jayjg ^(talk) 02:02, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. --Stemonitis 07:27, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Requested move 9 February 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: To be moved to Israeli pound. Unanimous support for moving away from current title, and the only sticking point is whether it's "Israel pound" or "Israeli pound". As there is precedent for the demonym version (Canadian dollar), and that is favoured by the majority, I see the consensus is to move to "Israeli pound". Note: this move will require admin assistance, which I will request. (non-admin closure)  — Amakuru (talk) 09:34, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

---

Israeli lira → Israeli pound – Per WP:USEENGLISH WP:COMMONNAMEs.
There was a previous vote that was rather one-sided:

pound: User:Epson291, User:AjaxSmack

lira: User:Dove1950, User:Chochopk, User:Number 57, User:Nightstallion, User:Valley2city, User:Jayjg

but may have been the result of an unrepresentative sample since the lira contingent ignored Epson's solid arguments and data, referred to each other as colleagues, and relied on anecdotal evidence and a misconception that WPCOIN's guidelines trumped WP:USEENGLISH WP:COMMONNAMEs.

This is the English wiki and the common English name of this currency is the Israel or Israeli pound; lira was the Hebrew name but that was always aside the point. Pound is over twice as common as lira even at Google Scholar; much more common in historical sources (and this is a historical article); and, more importantly, continues to be the formal translation of the currency used by the Bank of Israel, who presumably know the Hebrew name and when and where to use it.

Even at the time, the editors above should have ignored the policy they were citing ("use the local name even where there is an English alternative") since it's a lousy one. The editor just above them even pointed that out, along with its lack of authority, which they ignored. Since then, the policy itself has been corrected. It now reads

Use the term for the currency that is most commonly used by standard English language sources. Such sources include encyclopedias, media of record, academic literature, government publications, and numismatic catalogues. English language descriptions of the currency by the issuing authority, as well as usage of English names on the currency itself, should also be considered.

which means it's now in favor of a move as well. Let's fix this. — LlywelynII 06:58, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Survey

• Sounds fair enough. Debresser (talk) 07:58, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
• Support move. “WarKosign” 09:40, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
• Support - I think since you can clearly see here [2] that Israel considers it to pound until it became the shekel, that in English its the pound.
• Support. I don't ever remember it being called lira in English language sources outside of Israel. StevenJ81 (talk) 18:22, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
• Comment according to that previous discussion from 2007, it's actually called the Israel Pound as found on the banknotes themselves, not "Israeli pound" -- 70.51.200.135 (talk) 01:24, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

  Most articles on currencies on Wikipedia, as far as I can tell, use the attributive adjective. Hence "Canadian dollar", not "Canada dollar". So this article would need to be "Israeli ...", not "Israel ...". StevenJ81 (talk) 14:48, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

In addition, the "pound" would not be capitalised per WP:NCCAPS. RGloucester — ☎ 19:10, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

• Support move to Israel pound to more obviously distinguish it from Israeli shekel.
  I don't much like Israeli pound since it differs from the official and common name in British English. All of these are definitely wrong: Israeli Pound, Israel Pound, Israeli lira, Israeli Lira, Israel lira or Israel Lira. BushelCandle (talk) 14:29, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

• Support Israeli pound (or Israel pound if others wish) per nom, i.e. WP:UCN. —  AjaxSmack  03:44, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
• Support I'm in favor of either term that involves "pound". Fdssdf (talk) 07:02, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
• Support Israeli pound per above. RGloucester — ☎ 17:17, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
• Support Israeli pound per above. Me-123567-Me (talk) 04:38, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
  • • Conclusion: With more than a week gone by and no reasoned support evident for lira, I think someone can now be less than WP:BOLD and move the pages... BushelCandle (talk) 09:12, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

"Issue" Date vs Printed Date

Hi! The article lists the "Third Series" I£5 and I£10 notes being "Issued" in 1972 and 1970 respectively. Interestingly, if you zoom in on the notes pictured in the article, those pre-date the issue year. I have a few of these notes lying around here, and they, too, pre-date 1970. ...Or maybe I'm missing something? Tewner (talk) 20:28, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

I£

Is there some good reason not to make a redirect from I£ to this article? It says in the article that's the symbol for it. Are there other currencies that use the same symbol? GA-RT-22 (talk) 05:36, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

I don't suppose there's any particular reason not to create that redirect. I wouldn't recommend using I£ in a setting where readers might not know what it meant, but as a redirect it seems Uncontroversial...  — Amakuru (talk) 08:02, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

MOS:CURRENCY says to use the "unambiguous signifier" on first use, and link it. So I tried to do that at Dollar Account affair, which had been using the wrong symbol (IL), and discovered there is no redirect. GA-RT-22 (talk) 17:30, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

What even is the name of this currency?

I have been accused of fait accompli by NotReallySoroka for using "Israeli pound" as the currency's name in text and changing redirects to the direct link (they also accused me of the same on the sterling article). I am not proposing any changes to the article or any others whatsoever in making this section, merely asking for opinions on consensus.

Here is my penny's worth: I am aware the name in Hebrew was "lira", but this is the English Wikipedia, and all the evidence suggests to me that in *English* the name of the former Israeli currency was the "Israeli pound". If one is going to call it the lira one might as well accept calling it the Israeli guinea (derived from the Arabic form) as well. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 18:04, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

@TheCurrencyGuy: First, see WP:EGG, you really should not have wlinked NotReallySoroka's name like that, although I recognise that you did so in good faith without being aware of the significance.

On the main issue, I think that you have missed the point here. When writing in English, the name of the primary unit of the [then] currency of Israel was the Israeli pound, per 2016 discussion above, but that is not the challenge. Yes, it would be technically correct to say that the first currency of Israel was pegged to sterling. But that is much too obscure for a generalist reader and it is far more useful to say that the Israeli pound was pegged at par to the pound sterling, giving the reader a practical 'unit to unit' mapping rather than the abstract 'currency to currency' mapping. WP:Think of the reader. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 21:51, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Frig.... I didn't know I was doing anything wrong, I'm sorry....

Might this be one of those occasions where the "stg" suffix is appropriate? ie. "pegged to sterling at I£1 = £1 stg.". The reason I used "pegged to sterling" was because I often find over preponderance of any single word results in confusion, "pegged to sterling at I£1 = £1 sterling" would also seem overkill. This is why I used the term "Israeli lira" (but using an underlying link to the Israeli pound article) on the Palestine pound article, because it originally said "the pound" repeatedly in reference to three distinct units (£E, I£ and £P) and it was difficult to read as a result. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 22:37, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

@John Maynard Friedman: I appreciate your concern over TCG wikilinking my username, but I don't mind. NotReallySoroka (talk) 22:14, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

TCG, I really should have used your own talk page, not here, to tip you off about WP:EGG, sorry. Don't worry, it is a common mistake, especially when it offers a neat solution as it did in this case.

I understand your point and agree that in this article is absolutely essential to add a disambiguating tag to each use of a £ sign. But it seems to me that the best way to avoid the silly sentence you identify is not to mention sterling in isolation at all. "The Israeli pound was pegged at par to the British pound (I£1 = £1 stg.)". --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 13:16, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

The important point IMO is 'like for like' matches. So it is valid ti say that "the Israeli currency was pegged to sterling"; "the Israeli pound was pegged to the pound sterling" and "pegged at one Israeli pound to one pound sterling". We get ourselves in a mess if we try to mix types in the same phrase. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 13:53, 2 July 2022 (UTC)