Talk:Israeli torture in the occupied territories

Requested move 19 March 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Result:
Moved per discussion below. Thanks and kudos to editors for your input; good health to all! P.I. Ellsworth - ed. ^put'r there 22:34, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

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Israel and torture in the occupied territories → Israeli torture in the occupied territories – Per article titles rules, the use of the word "and" in article titles should be avoided, especially when it creates the impression of bias. There is no credible source that says that Israel has not tortured anyone in the occupied territories, so the article should be renamed accordingly. (t · c) buidhe 05:06, 19 March 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 21:32, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

The problem with that is that both the Palestinian National Authority and Hamas have resorted to torture in those territories - in the former case it is very much a delegated extension of Israeli practices. The proposed title change would require that any reference here to violent Palestinian abuses of human rights be excised and relocated to a new page Palestinian abuses of human rights in the occupied territories. The 'and' allows us to cover both on the one page, which is appropriate since they are intimately connected.Nishidani (talk) 07:55, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

Currently, there is just a one-sentence mention, with a separate article torture in the Palestinian territories, so I assumed that the article's scope was just torture by the Israeli authorities. If indeed torture by the Palestinian authority is delegated by Israel, it should be covered in more detail here regardless of the name change. (t · c) buidhe 08:25, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

• Alternate proposal: Move to Torture in the Israeli occupied territories. Title is more natural because here we're being clear that it's Israeli occupied territories, and there isn't something called Israeli torture as was proposed. This title also allows scope to include torture by other organisations in the said territories. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • C • L)} 16:28, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

  Because this RM is already in the backlog, pinging @Buidhe and Nishidani: for opinion. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • C • L)} 16:30, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

I think Buidhe's proposal more viable. (The article, compared to the massive literature on this, is still underworked). Whatever abuses the PA and Hamas have engage in over 55 years of occupation, they are dwarfed to relative insignificance by the Israeli record over 55 years of occupation- If terror, as it is often defined in the political literature, is a form of violence calibrated to destroy the morale of an adversary, what we observe there is the resilient application of terror as implicit in Jabotinsky's realist prescription in 1923 that Zionism could succeed only by reducing the indigenous population to a pervasive sense of absolute despair, which is the only way of interpreting the persistence of a high tolerance for their diurnal suffering as caused by settlement and military harassment or insouciance to what we all observe daily on youtube.Nishidani (talk) 19:13, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Palestinian torture

As this article is about Israeli torture, the sentence "Torture is also practiced by the Palestinian authorities in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip." has no place here. Notably, there is no equivalent sentence in the article on Palestinian torture. Mcdruid (talk) 04:18, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

I second that notion. The sentence referring to Palestinian authorities is misplaced in this article. CraigoGiarco (talk) 15:31, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

I agree as well - there is no relevancy; this comment is out of place and should be removed 33prefeudalmath (talk) 15:07, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Title query

@Buidhe: A query about the previous move. It occurs to me that often when Israel detains Palestinians, it takes them to jails within Israel, so is this covered and should it be? And if the latter, should it be "in the occupied territories", or is this article really about "Israeli torture of Palestinians" or "Torture of Palestinians by Israel", i.e. along the same lines in terms of scope as, and presumably a child article of, Human rights violations against Palestinians by Israel. Iskandar323 (talk) 16:25, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

I would support that move because I think you're right, the torture does not necessarily occur within the occupied territories although it sometimes does. (t · c) buidhe 17:18, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Falaqa

Please explain this revert of my adding a wikilink to an uncommon term. - Altenmann >talk 00:19, 27 April 2024 (UTC)