Talk:Ivory Coast national rugby union team

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Consensus here is clearly for the move. I read the RfC at the country article before making the decision and decided it had little bearing on this discussion. Although the RfC was started with the sentence "I would like to remark that for the sake of consistency this is a discussion about what to call the country in all articles where in it is referred to", most contributors to the RfC did not comment on this aspect and it seems that most contributors were only discussing the country's title. Therefore even if there was a consensus for one title or the other (which there appears not to be) I can definitely see no consensus that the result of the RfC should apply to all articles and therefore I concluded that discussion should not influence this one. That leaves the one oppose vote based on consistency (with the country's article title), which is a valid argument for not making this move, but consistency has to be weighed up against using the common name and consensus here is clearly that using the common name is more important. Dpmuk (talk) 14:26, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

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Côte d'Ivoire national rugby union team → Ivory Coast national rugby union team — Unlike the name of the country, which is known as Côte d'Ivoire in some English sources, I cannot find reliable sources referring to this team in English as "Côte d'Ivoire". The team is much more widely known as "Ivory Coast", including by the International Rugby Board, rugby union's governing body (link), and rugbydata.com, the other external link provided in the article (link). Other sources to call the team "Ivory Coast" include the BBC. The team is also referred to as Ivory Coast in the 2009 film Invictus; though that is hardly an official source, it does indicate popular usage. The only website I've find calling the team "Côte d'Ivoire" is rugby365.com, as well as mirrors of Wikipedia. The Celestial City (talk) 23:30, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

• Côte d'Ivoire at the Rugby World Cup → Ivory Coast at the Rugby World Cup

• Speedy Close without moving Are you serious? All that this will accomplish is a flame war. I already know that this will end in no consensus, so why even bother. Let's not have a stupid flame war at every damn article that has anything to do with Côte d'Ivory, it's settled there, it should be settled here. D O N D E groovily Talk to me 05:08, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

• That is certainly not the intention of starting this move request; I should note that I do not want to move the article Côte d'Ivoire. My interest is in rugby-related articles, not Côte d'Ivoire specifically. On what basis do you think we should keep this article at its current location, given that the great majority of sources use "Ivory Coast"? The Celestial City (talk) 17:10, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Because the country article is at Côte d'Ivoire. Having a country at Côte d'Ivoire and their rugby team at Ivory Coast is patently ridiculous. The consensus on the title Côte d'Ivoire should apply to all dependent articles. D O N D E groovily Talk to me 05:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

• The following from the Côte d'Ivoire/Ivory Coast talk page:

Should Wikipedia refer to this country as Côte d'Ivoire or Ivory Coast? The argument for Ivory Coast is that the most commonly used name by English sources for this country, and therefore per WP:NCGN should be called Ivory Coast. The argument for Côte d'Ivoire is that both terms are equally common used in English, and therefore it should be kept at its last stable name, which is Côte d'Ivoire. I would like to remark that for the sake of consistency this is a discussion about what to call the country in all articles where in it is referred to.

(Emphasis mine). Thus, Speedy Close. D O N D E groovily Talk to me 05:06, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

If this page was, for example, History of Côte d'Ivoire, then your argument about consistancy would apply. But this article is about a rugby team, which is simply not called by the name this article uses. This situation, I should stress, is not unique; the Korea Republic national football team represents the Republic of Korea (South Korea), but it is comparatively rare for the team to be called South Korea. In what way are these situations different? The Celestial City (talk) 16:46, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

FWIW, the Korea Republic national rugby union team page does not exist, the article for the South Korean side is located at South Korea national rugby union team even though the national side is recognised only as Korea by the IRB although the country is labeled as South Korea on Wikipedia. Moreover, Hong Kong national rugby union team and Ireland national rugby union team both have the word national in their titles even though both do not represent individual nations (in their respective manners). Get rid of the word national in the titles and have the sides titled as they are by the international federation that governs them. --Bob (talk) 00:20, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Just to be clear, I support this move per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:USEENGLISH. And to paraphrase D O N D E groovily, as Ivory Coast is the common name for the rugby team (and the country, but that discussion is for that article, not this), this should be reflected in the entry. Wikipedia doesn't use official names when they are unclear and confusing --Bob (talk) 18:36, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm proposing a page move on "Korea Republic national football team" right now. The name Korea Republic is inherently confusing and has no business as an article when the clear unconfusing "South Korea" is available. D O N D E groovily Talk to me 01:53, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

That's because the rugby team of South Korea is not known as "Korea Republic", but simply as "Korea"; presumably because there isn't a North Korean rugby team, whereas there is a Korea DPR national football team representing North Korea in association football. Personally, I would like to see the Korean team moved to Korea national rugby union team to match the usage of the IRB – that's obviously more controversial though than this move, as there are two countries involved. The Celestial City (talk) 23:23, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

• Support per evidence in nomination, WP:UE (use English) and WP:UCN (use common names) notwithstanding WP:OFFICIALNAMES. — AjaxSmack 02:04, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
• Support unless someone can come up with counterevidence to outweigh the evidence given in the nomination. (And "it will start a flame war" isn't an argument, just a - likely self-fulfilling - prophesy.) --Kotniski (talk) 10:39, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
  • As a said above, the Côte D'Ivoire talk page already reached agreement to call the country and all articles featuring its name Côte D'Ivoire. We'd basically be following consensus here by violating it there. D O N D E groovily Talk to me 01:42, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

As I've tried to explain above, there is no reason why a sports team must share the name of the country it represents. Until recently for example, the New Zealand national rugby union team, a featured article, was located at the team's nickname, "All Blacks" – it was eventually decided that the number of sources calling the team "New Zealand" (including the IRB, unlike here) outweighed the sources referring to the All Blacks. This article should not be at its current location any more than the Arabian Gulf rugby union team (which was recognised as a national team by the IRB, and which until its disolution this year competed against international teams such as Japan) should be called "Arab states of the Persian Gulf national rugby union team". The Celestial City (talk) 01:09, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

No consensus was reached in the Cote d'Ivoire discussion. I Support this move, WP:COMMONNAME should take precedence over any considerations about consistency.TheFreeloader (talk) 06:00, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

• Comment We could always dodge the issue and call it National rugby union team of Côte d'Ivoire. Skinsmoke (talk) 19:08, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

While technically correct, that terminology, like the current title, is not in common use; the team is usually simply known as "Ivory Coast". The Celestial City (talk) 20:28, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

I don't really see that there's an issue to dodge. Whatever consensus may have been reached in other discussions, it presumably didn't take account of the specific issues of this article. If the team's called Ivory Coast, I don't see a problem calling the article that, and every problem in calling it something else. (Just like the United Kingdom national cricket team is called "England", so that's what we call it.)--Kotniski (talk) 07:11, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 2012

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was not moved. --regentspark (comment) 20:10, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Ivory Coast national rugby union team → Côte d'Ivoire national rugby union team – Sports are a special context for naming purposes. For instance, we use "Chinese Taipei" in sports contexts even though it is "Taiwan" in nearly all non-sports contexts; indeed we have Chinese Taipei national rugby union team. Although there was a recent contentious RM discussion that resulted in the country itself moving to the title Ivory Coast, in sports contexts the name Côte d'Ivoire is used almost exclusively, and the title here should reflect that. P.T. Aufrette (talk) 17:43, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

• Additional comment We also have the article Rugby union in Ivory Coast, but that is not part of this requested move, since by analogy with Rugby union in Taiwan it is about the sport of rugby union within a particular geographic area, as opposed to the name of a national team as used in international sports competitions. — P.T. Aufrette (talk) 17:49, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose per move request that was settled recently. Moreover, in rugby contexts the name Ivory Coast is used more often in English media than the French name. The International Rugby Board even identifies them in English as the Ivory Coast. See here.--Bob247 (talk) 22:29, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose - Per your arguments, the "official" country name is not necessarily what we call the country. In the case of Taiwan, it is a compromise name as both PRC and ROC claim to be China. --Education does not equal common sense. 我不在乎 02:12, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose. The claim that the country is referred to differently when they are the scrum is just a lot of hand waving. Check ESPN's rugby schedule. Kauffner (talk) 13:34, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose Cote d'Ivoire is not used almost exclusively, I am not sure about rugby, but certainly television coverage of the football world cup in Britain normally refers to Ivory Coast. We do not always used the names countries compete under e.g. we have Macedonia at the Olympics even though it competes as Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. I am not sure that we should use Chinese Taipei as widely as we do, I feel inclined to move some of them, but if the present titles are justified then they are justified by the unusually contentious nature of this territory, and because we could get into disputes about whether we use Taiwan or Republic of China. PatGallacher (talk) 15:22, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.