Talk:Ivy Ling Po

Quick Question

Can I doublecheck that the signature song in Love Eterne is (十八相送) eighteen mile away? Benjwong 05:56, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

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BetacommandBot (talk) 19:05, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus. --BDD (talk) 22:25, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Ivy Ling Po → Ivy Ling – Ling is her surname, so I don't know why the title is "Ivy Ling Po", unless commonly used by sources. Relisted. BDD (talk) 22:08, 4 June 2013 (UTC) George Ho (talk) 22:56, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

• Comment - um, it is used in some sources, but unless there are other WP:BLPs with this sort of compounded Ivy Ling + Ling Po = Ivy Ling Po, not something really ideal in a BLP title. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:37, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Clicked, as per 65.94 says, Hong Kong name we do have this for several actors. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:19, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

• Comment it looks like Hong Kong Name Order to me. "Ivy Ling" + "Ling Po" -> "Ivy Ling Po", frequently found in HK actor credits. -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 07:01, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose HK name order WP:ENGVAR. HK name order is frequently found in credit rolls for HK films and used in the HK English language press as well. Since IMDB uses HK name order, and this actress worked in Hong Kong. -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 07:05, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support. It's a mix-and-match of two names.--Cold Season (talk) 14:13, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Comment it's not mix-and-match, it's a specific format used in Hong Kong. -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 05:09, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
    • We only use mix-and-match names because of two confusing names, like Tony Leung, Anthony Wong, and Keith Chan situations. There is no existing article about another Ivy Ling yet, and there isn't another Ivy Ling yet... unlesss I overlooked. --George Ho (talk) 05:31, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
    • That is hardly true, "english first name + last name + chinese first name" is unlogical and comprises two kind of names. I doubt this person would go by this name. They certainly don't commonly do that order in the end credits of movies or such media in HK, rather than just one latin-alphabet name + perhaps chinese characters of a name following. ENGVAR certainly does not support that order, since it does not make mention of this order. --Cold Season (talk) 12:35, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
      • See also Talk:Anthony_Wong_(Hong_Kong_actor), where other users have pointed out that this format is used in Hong Kong. Further, it is not "unlogical", unless you claim that Roman names are also "unlogical" since it uses a similar placement for the familial name, in the middle of a three-term name. I'm sure alot of people would call Chinese name order "unlogical", and many others would call English name order "unlogical" as well. And many people called Roman names illogical. Hong Kong Movie World comments on this using [1] "Brigitte Lin Ching Hsia" is "Brigitte Lin" and "Lin Ching Hsia" in Hong Kong order, among other examples givens. -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 12:56, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
        • It's not other users, it's one user. Also, I have made no statement about Roman names, and neither care about what's correct on that separate case and irrelevant analogy. Is Hong Kong Movie World an authority? No. --Cold Season (talk) 21:52, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
• For those curious, WP:AT#National varieties of English says that Wikipedia has no preference of various English spellings, but encourages a worldly acceptable name for one topic over nation-specific term for one topic. However, it is too general, and Hong Kong English is... very unique. Other sections at WP:AT may or may not apply, but I believe this request depends on consensus, as Ivy Ling and Ivy Ling Po are often used names. Since MOS:ENGVAR does not mention examples of Hong Kong topics, I don't know if we want to rely on WP:RETAIN. It warns us not to debate on English varieties to use, but this request is more than just "color vs. colour". Nevertheless, "Po" may be unnecessary because there is no "Ivy Ling" yet. --George Ho (talk) 04:36, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
• Follow up, mild oppose - after thinking about it Google Books "Ivy Ling" + "Shaw brothers" brings up almost all "Ivy Ling Po" wheras "Ivy Ling" is a character in children's book "Good Luck Ivy". It'd be better to stick with the longer common name including both Ivy and Po in good old Hong Kong cinema style. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:54, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 25 May 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. No consensus supporting the move. (closed by a page mover) (non-admin closure). Anarchyte (work | talk) 07:31, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

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Ivy Ling Po → ? – The previous RM was closed as "no consensus". This prompted me to think that an English and a Romanized Chinese name should be mixed. However, the more I did RMs on names of Hong Kong people, the more often people would disagree unless it's for more suitable distinction, like Tony Leungs and Raymond Wongs. Sometimes, even when there is just one person of the same name, Connie Mak Kit-man has been used since the "not moved" result in the latest RM as voters could not pick either name due to the proposer's outrage on the current name. In this case, Ivy Ling, Po Ling, Bo Ling, Ling Po, and Ling Bo would be interchangeably used. This discussion shall not accept A mere "support" vote without picking whichever name you would prefer would be insufficient, so I would prefer a more elaborate preferred name if you please. However, per WP:DIVIDEDUSE, if those names are commonly used, the least surprising name of all commonly used names should be used instead, either the current one, the Romanized Chinese name, or the English name. George Ho (talk) 01:45, 25 May 2016 (UTC) --Relisted.  — Amakuru (talk) 09:19, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

Oppose What is there to discuss and where is the evidence to justify a move? Please watch some of her films and see how she is credited per WP:BEFORE. A lot of the Shaw Brothers Studio actresses are credited like that, e.g. Betty Loh Ti, Margaret Tu Chuan, Angela Yu Chien etc. AFAIK these are all stage names, so don't think for example Ling is her surname — it's not. Timmyshin (talk) 12:35, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

I have watched her sing operatic songs, Timmyshin... but not in the Western way. I just started a newer discussion because of previous RMs I have done on other people. This is George Ho actually (Talk) 00:58, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Here are sources: [2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9]. There's a boy named Ling Po, but probably fictional? This is George Ho actually (Talk) 01:04, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

• There's a boy named Ling Po, but probably fictional?: That "boy" is Liang Shanbo portrayed by Ivy Ling Po in The Love Eterne... The only possible alternative is Ling Po but there is a sculptor with that (also stage) name. If you want to create a dab page for "Ling Po" go right ahead, but there's no reason to move "Ivy Ling Po". Per IMDB filmography, she used "Ivy Ling Po" from 1964 onward, and only used "Ling Po" briefly in 1963 even though her best known work The Love Eterne was in 1963. Timmyshin (talk) 01:29, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

• IMDB is unreliable and user-edited. Let's use more reliable sources instead, like the above links. George Ho (talk) 04:34, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

• [10] [11] [12] [13] etc. Timmyshin (talk) 08:07, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

• Those are primary sources (i.e. films) for the official name. Can we stick to secondary sources instead? George Ho (talk) 19:00, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

• Statistics say that the actress is more popular than the sculptor. Shall I disambiguate the sculptor and then turn "Ling Po" to a disambiguation page for now? I'll just do it anyway. George Ho (talk) 04:36, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Oppose This is her widely used stage name in anglophone context, also used in secondary sources [14] [15] [16] etc (another primary source about her singing career). That some people find the practice of mixing English and Chinese names "unlogical" doesn't prevent lots of HK people to use these forms.--Phso2 (talk) 12:21, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.