Talk:Jürgen Bartsch

amazing omission

Why doesn’t the article explain the only profound psychological study performed on this monster: Alice Miller’s, which can be read for free online? [1] —Cesar Tort 13:39, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

1. Don't know... :-)
2. Which monster? R there other humans, u would call a "monster"? People suffer (with and without Bartsch; Rosemary Kennedy's life sounds quite horrible to me) quite often - and I couldn't tell who suffered more...
3. Your source looks quite private, while we should have some state-owned organisation here (e. g. a university)...
4. I personally wonder, why there is no "panic room area for permanent sojourn" (like this: http://home.tiscali.de/cmdr_faako/the-en.html) since people tend to behave very bad and since people tend to protect themselfes (airbag). Or am I missing something? Is there at least a experimental facility (similar to Biosphere 2)?

--213.54.138.239 01:28, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

source for molest

Is there a source for stating that he was molested by the named individual? That is a serious allegation.24.131.12.228 02:30, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I think, the accusations come from Bartsch himself. It is well known now, that german homes for parent-less children were very authoritarian and suppressing in that time. I saw a man in german TV, who was in the same "school", and who did not become a prisoner, and who said, too, that the "school"-leaders were violent. Psychiatry is violent, schools r violent, ... So the allegation fits the pattern... :-) --213.54.143.146 09:08, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

In other words, no.71.63.119.49 19:07, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Yup! It is difficult to find a source for something, that nobody but the criminal could see/hear/sense (the criminal has the right to remain silent, but everything he says, can and might be used against him in a judge trial)... Especially when it is politically wished, that children r forced to live with adults/grups... --Homer Landskirty 07:00, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

there: [2] -- a study about child abuse in such facilities... --Homer Landskirty (talk) 05:32, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

ohoh - the study is about facilities with protestantic carrier... but i think catholic carriers r not better... --Homer Landskirty (talk) 07:51, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

I too noted the matter-of-fact assertion that an actual, named person (perhaps still living) was a child molester. I would think such would warrant some documentation at the very least. I didn't even see a citation. Has there ever been a confessed pedophile who hasn’t claimed he had been molested as a kid?

I wonder what ever became of the most fortunate (after the fact) Peter Frese. I remember reading about this case sometime back then and it scared the daylights out of me as I believe Frese is just about my age. I often wondered if I would have had the guts to do as he had, holding his bare, bound ankles to the candle long enough to burn the rope off so he could run away in the monster's absence. Perhaps it had been sheer animal terror, which I could understand. Poor kid, I think I remember reading that the pain had been so bad from the burns that he had passed out just after reaching someone's house and safety.

Bartsch had forgotten one of his implements of torture. He told his captive that he had forgotten something and would return presently. Freese then had the resourcefulness to tell his abductor that he was afraid to be tied-up all alone in the dark and could Bartsch please perhaps light a candle which the boy had seen on him, hopefully playing on the monster’s sense of perverse magnanimity.

Bartsch, apparently not thinking of the boy’s quick-witted intent, agreed and lit two. Frese’s first attempt to burn the rope off failed as he extinguished the flame instead. Thankfully, his second attempt succeeded, though at the cost to the child previously noted. For an eleven year old to have that presence of mind in that situation is remarkable.

Bartsch later wrote a ghoulish note to Frese in which he admitted to having had every intention of killing the boy, but protested that he “loved” Frese which only proved how helpless Bartsch was in the grip of his sinister obsessions. Frese received compensation from some sort of victims’ fund which he well-deserved.

By his quick thinking and fortitude, young Frese might have saved not just his own life, but perhaps one or more other kids' as well. I hope he has been able to overcome such trauma and build himself a decent life.

HistoryBuff14≈≈≈≈ —Preceding unsigned comment added by HistoryBuff14 (talk • contribs) 23:17, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

—Addendum: As per my below new section, Peter Frese had been fifteen at the time of his abduction by Bartsch and not eleven as I state above. That misinformation came from this Wikipedia article itself. As indicated below, I have changed the article to reflect the correct age of the boy at the time.HistoryBuff14 (talk) 13:34, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

I've removed the unsource claim. If a source is found, it can be readded.--TParis00ap (talk) 00:04, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Corrected factual error regarding Bartsch’s final victim (who survived)

I was frustrated in that several different ages have been given for Peter Frese, Bartsch’s last victim and the only survivor, at the time of his macabre encounter with the subject in 1966. Wikipedia has had his age at eleven, which many secondary sources have followed. The German magazine Der Spiegel stated he had been fourteen at the time. Several other sources give a rather absurd age of five. There can no longer be any doubt that his actual age then had been fifteen.

My source for this is a German documentary which shows actual photographs and film clips of people involved in the sordid case, including a photograph of Frese (pronounced “Feeze’ a [short]”) and an interview with Frese at the time the film was made in 2000. Therefore, he would have been about 49 then (and about 60 now if still living, as I assume he is). Unfortunately, the video has no subtitles and my German is more than a tad rusty, I’m afraid. However, it is clearly stated that Frese had been fifteen at the time of his abduction. The adult Frese talks about how he had met up with Bartsch one day when he had been working as a day laborer as a teen and how Bartsch seduced him into accompanying him into the abandoned air raid shelter. If anyone would be interested in looking at the documentary entitled Der Kindermörder Jürgen Bartsch (The Child Murderer Jürgen Bartsch), here is the link to its first part:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQnQWPB40_k

The photo of Frese at the time of his abduction is at 2:16 and the interview with the adult Frese immediately follows.