Talk:J. B. Gunn

Thin

This article is terribly thin. I have done minimal patching to allow sourcing in mention of Gunn in notables on page about Malvern. I knew him personally as another Senior Government Research Fellow -- I think he may have joined shortly after me. Printed evidence that he was at RRE can be found by a Web of Science search which retrieves several papers in Proceedings of Physical Society in which RRE is given as his affiliation. I just copied catch words and phrases from titles of his papers. No time to look for links to Wikipedia pages. He deserves a lot better. Hope this is not polemical. Will try to find article about him next week and contact mutual acquaintances closer to his work to extend the page. Michael P. Barnett (talk) 16:09, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Correction needed

How is the description "American physicist" above Categories box at foot of page changed to "US/British physicist" for accuracy and consistency with description earlier in article? Michael P. Barnett (talk) 01:46, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

The line that you are talking about is a stub-sorting template. You can see the code at the bottom of the edit page - it looks like this: {{US-physicist-stub}}.

Unfortunately there is no US/British combination stub, so only one should be picked. You can see the full list of available stub templates for Physicists here.  7  02:00, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

In that case, the stub for British Physicist should be selected, as he never became an American. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jpg1954 (talk • contribs) 04:41, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Dates for RRE are '53 to October '56. See article entitled "Of Diodes and Desmos: the Story of Ian Gunn" in the July 1994 issue of "Roadracing World"--Jpg1954 (talk) 05:08, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Criteria for being considered "Egyptian"?

He was born in Cairo, Egypt, but had a British (not Egyptian) birth certificate. He never had any Egyptian documentation, and never considered himself Egyptian. He left Egypt, with his parents, at age 2 and never returned. Do you really want to categorize him as "Egyptian"? Jpg1954 (talk) 15:55, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

After checking with the Egypt project, I've removed the WikiProject Egypt banner. I don't think anyone really considers him Egyptian. GyroMagician (talk) 22:43, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Corrections

Minimal changes made Michael P. Barnett (talk) 18:00, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Main Heading should be "J.B. Gunn"

Is there any way to get the heading changed from "John Battiscombe Gunn" to "J.B. Gunn".

After the age of 5, he was NEVER called "John" He was always known personally as "Ian" or "Iain", and professionally as "J.B. Gunn". No one outside the immediate family was allowed to know what the "B" stood for.

Both his aunt(professional name/Wiki listing "Wendy Wood", real name "Gwendoline Emily Meacham") and his half brother (professional name/Wiki listing "Spike Hughes", real name "Patrick Cairns Hughes") have their Wikipedia listings under their professional rather than their legal names, so there is clearly a precedent. Jpg1954 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:23, 13 December 2010 (UTC).

There is probably a wiki-policy about this somewhere (I'll look later), but the basic mechanism is a page move. If you propose it, I'll support. GyroMagician (talk) 22:10, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

How do I do that? Jpg1954 (talk) 23:03, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

I think what you propose fits in with Wikipedia's Wikipedia:Article_titles#Common_names Common names principle for article naming, so we're good there. Details on page moving can be found at WP:MOVE. I've done it a couple of times - it's not difficult, but there seemed to be a lot of steps to do things in the right order (to preserve the edit history and talk page, if I remember correctly). Do you want to have a go, or would you prefer me to do it? GyroMagician (talk) 10:10, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

I will try when I have some time to focus on it without distraction . Jpg1954 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:05, 14 December 2010 (UTC).

OK, moved it. Jpg1954 (talk) 01:25, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Noise, Cyril Hilsum, Bell Labs

I found the reference for the IEEE Spectrum article about the initial discovery of the Gunn effect, based on "noisy" experimental results in Gallium arsenide, and updated the text accordingly. But that makes the reference immediately after the Hilsum link not right- it simply points to the original paper. In reality he was initially quite sure that it was NOT related to Hilsum's work, and was quite embarrased when "someone from Bell Labs" showed the theoretical basis. But I do not have the appropriate reference for that work. I'll try to find the full text of the Spectrum article, which may include the Bell labs reference. Jpg1954 (talk) 16:18, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Found it, I think

Jpg1954 (talk) 18:50, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

• Kroemer, H (December 1964), "Theory of the Gunn effect", Proceedings of the IEEE, 52 (12), Proceedings of the IEEE: IEEE: 1736–1736, doi:10.1109/PROC.1964.3476, ISSN 0018-9219 {{citation}}: |contribution-url= ignored (help)

Jpg1954 (talk) 16:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, now I am totally confused. If one of you knows more about semiconductor physics than I do, maybe you can help.

The IEEE Spectrum paper from 1989 says "The full explanation of the Gunn effect was delivered by Alan Chynoweth, of Bell Telephone Laboratories, at a crowded June 1965 conference in New York City. The Bell Labs data showed that only a transferred- electron mechanism could explain why hydrostatic pressure first decreased the threshold field and then suppressed the current oscillations. Electrons heated to transfer to states at higher energies in the conduction band behave like particles of greater mass, decreasing the average velocity of all electrons and producing a negative- conductivity effect."

This is consistent with my memory that "someone from Bell labs" provided the explanation.

However, the Wikipage for the Ridley Watkins Hilsum theory says: "In 1964 Kroemer suggested that Gunn's observations were in complete agreement with the RWH." with the reference Kroemer, H (December 1964), "Theory of the Gunn effect", Proceedings of the IEEE (Proceedings of the IEEE: IEEE) 52 (12): 1736–1736, doi:10.1109/PROC.1964.3476, ISSN 0018-9219, http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=1445406

The Kroemer paper clearly exists, and clearly predates Chenowyth's presentation.

But my individual IEEE membership does not seem to give me access to either the abstract or the full content of the Kroemer paper, so I do not know what it says.

The IEEE Spectrum paper makes no mention of either Kroemer or Hilsum.

Before Wikipedia, I never heard any mention of either Kroemer or Hilsum in connection with the Gunn effect. Kroemer was never mentioned at all. Hilsum was only mentioned as the person who, after spending an hour in the darkroom with Reg Lever (aka Jiminy Cricket) waiting for the apparatus to stabilize, said "Jiminy... Jiminy... If you don't SHUT UP I'll commit...INSECTICIDE"

So is the whole Kroemer/Hilsum connection a Wikipedia generated red herring?

ETA or is "transferred- electron mechanism could explain why hydrostatic pressure first decreased the threshold field and then suppressed the current oscillations. Electrons heated to transfer to states at higher energies in the conduction band behave like particles of greater mass, decreasing the average velocity of all electrons and producing a negative- conductivity effect."

the same as "According to the Ridley Watkins Hilsum (RWH) Theory the differential negative resistance that is developed in a bulk solid state III - V compound when either a voltage or a current is applied to the terminals of the sample.

There are two modes of negative resistance devices:

 1. Voltage-controlled modes.
 2. current-controlled modes.

In the voltage controlled mode the current density can be multivalued, whereas in the current controlled mode the voltage can be multivalued." from Ridley Watkins Hilsum theory ? Jpg1954 (talk) 18:10, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Whatever we come up with as a resolution here will also have to be reflected on the Gunn diode and Ridley Watkins Hilsum theory pages.

Jpg1954 (talk) 17:03, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

email from Trinity

I emailed Trinity last night. Herewith reply from Lynne Isaacs, Publications & Database Co-ordinator lei20@cam.ac.uk

"Thank you for your email. I have checked our records and can confirm the following details in relation to John Battiscombe Gunn's time at Trinity:

Matriculated in 1945 (Nat Sciences prelim Class II in 1946, Nat Sciences tripos Class III in 1947, Mechanical Science Class II in 1948) and graduated with a BA in 1948. He was not awarded an MA and I am unable to find any record of further studies in Cambridge. I assume he must have gained a PhD elsewhere.

I do hope this information is helpful in tidying up the Wikipedia entry. I shall also pass on the link to the obituary in Physics Today to our website officer for inclusion in the obituaries section on the main College website http://www.trin.cam.ac.uk/index.php?pageid=192."

I think he was a Senior Government Fellow. I think a Ph.D. plus 5 years research were prerequisites. Maybe exceptional research compensated for lack of Ph.D. Maybe my memory of requirements is wrong. Maybe he was not Sen Govt Fellow. I got full bibliography yesterday, but his early papers not accessible in electronic journals and could not get to hard copy of issues containing these. Don't mind if someone else does. Michael P. Barnett (talk) 20:36, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

The BA was his only academic degree. Later in life he was told that he could get a PhD by submitting X British Pounds (maybe 50?) and copies of a number of papers from refereed journals. He didn't think it was worth the bother.

He was, in fact, the third member of his family to be mistakenly referred to as "Dr. Gunn". His father, Jack, had no post-secondary education, but was awarded an honory MA by Oxford, so they could make him a professor. But no PhD. He was commonly referred to as Dr. Gunn. His mother, Meena, the Freudian psychoanalyst, studied music at the Royal Academy of Music, but had no academic degrees, medical or otherwise. She was also commonly referred to as Dr. Gunn. His youngest daughter, Gillian Clissold, is legitimately entitled to "Dr.", as she earned a PhD from LSE (in something related to Angola), but is very rarely reerred to as Dr. Clissold.

I have no idea what his title was at RRE.

I can get access to hard copies of some of his early papers, but it will probably have to wait untiil after the holidays. I know at least one of them lists his affiliation as RRE, but I do not remember if it lists his title. Jpg1954 (talk) 04:15, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

It used to be much more common than it is now for working scientists not to have PhDs, and I don't think it would have been a prerequisite for Gunn to be a Senior Govt Fellow. I'm sure he could have gained one quite easily, but unless he said something specific about not wanting one, we don't need to add anything. Many scientists at Malvern didn't have PhDs and never felt the need to have one.GyroMagician (talk) 08:28, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Some nuances

Now that the content is substantial, would anyone mind fine tuning the overall structure and the sentence structure slightly. Here are some tentative suggestions.

1. Some people like to be able to read the non-digressive material sequentially. Gunn's use of variant names is essential to the main flow of the article. Should it go into the main flow, accordingly, rather than being in the digression to the picture caption? If its scope was just the picture, then its mention in the caption would be ok. Maybe first sentence could be "J.B. Gunn, also known as Ian, Iain or, formally, as John Battiscombe, was a British solid state physicist. He spent most of his career in the United States, where he discovered the phenomenon that became known as the "Gunn Effect" and used in the "Gunn diode". This was the first inexpensive source of microwave power that did not require vacuum tubes."

2. After looking at [1], I wonder if under "Early life", the text that starts in line 3 with "while Jack ..." should be "where Jack was Curator of the Egyptian Section of the University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology. The younger Gunn ..." (the present "He" made me pause for a moment to be sure of the referrant.

4. Did Spike Hughes write in English or American -- specifically "favorite" or "favourite"? "Colleague" is spelt in English a few lines later.

5. Would ending the sentence with "who designed the mathematical basis of the programming language APL" be more consistent with WP article on APL ?

6. Should next paragraph, opening sentence be "...Professor of Egyptology at the University of Oxford"?

7. Might next two sentences be coalesced into "At this point John chose to be known socially as Ian, or by the Scottish form Iain that was given ..."

8. Would "... went to school in England, except for two years at ..." be acceptable?

9. For consistency with information from the Records Officer at Trinity College, and his unusual behavior on graduating, might next sentence be expanded to "He spent the years 1945 to 1948 as an undergraduate at Trinity College, Cambridge. He was awarded a B.A. in the natural and mechanical sciences by the university in 1948, and left without even receiving an M.A." The nuancing of just what he graduated in is so fine I need to check further when I am awake.

10. Might the final sentence of this section end "... older than Ian. The eccentric life of the Gunn family ... autobiographical volumes ..."

If these efforts are considered useful I will continue on Friday. Michael P. Barnett (talk) 02:58, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

You are right about Spike's spelling of favourite. My transcription error. I have fixed it.

I always thought his degree was in "physics". But maybe "natural and mechanical sciences" is synonymous with "physics".

I don't think it is appropriate to describe Spike's books as being about "the Gunn family", as he was always a Hughes, never a Gunn (though he spent much more time with his step father than his real father). The common link was their mother, Meena, who was married 3 times (Herbert Hughes, Jack Gunn, Alex Grey-Clarke), and was the most eccentric of the lot.

ETA that the quotation about Iain and the radio is in the last chapter of the second volume- most of the content is "pre-Iain".  I will change "family life" to "family" to correct teh impression that there is a much ABOUT Iain in the books.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jpg1954 (talk • contribs) 12:16, 16 December 2010 (UTC) 

Other than that, I think your suggestions are useful. Jpg1954 (talk) 04:36, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

I do not know if it is relevant, and I do not know of a reference, but I think that he attended electronics courses at London Polytechnic after returning from his US evacuation ('43), before entering Cambridge('45). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jpg1954 (talk • contribs) 05:10, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Hi Michael & Jpg1954.

1) Alternative names should generally go in bold in the first sentance, so yes, you're correct. I like your opening sentence - add it.

2) Yes.

5) If he did design APL, then yes (citation required, but shouldn't be a problem).

6) Yes, fine.

7,8) Yes and yes.

9) I think it's pretty hard (impossible?) to get a physics degree from Cambridge - they still call it natural sciences. It's physics in everything but name. Was his behaviour unusual? I like the sentence, apart from "and left without even receiving an M.A.".

10) "... older than Ian" yes, the rest I prefer as it is.

Remember the Wikipedia philosophy - BE BOLD. You can go ahead and edit the article without checking each change with the rest of us. If we hate it, there is always an undo button ;-) More likely is that you change somehing, I change it a bit more, Jpg1954 changes it again, and we're all happier with the final result. Sometimes I write something into an article even though I don't like my own wording, because I have some information and can't figure out how to phrase it, hoping someone else will improve it (the opening sentences of this article, for example).

Jpg1954 - if we could find a reference for London Poly, it is certainly something we should include. GyroMagician (talk) 08:24, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Would London Poly know who took courses there in the 40s, even though not enrolled in a degree program?

I am not sure whether he actually graduated from Solebury or not. But when he returned to England, he was ready for University/post-secondary level work, but not yet old enough for Cambridge. His father, though a professor at Oxford, decided that Cambridge was, at the time, better for science than Oxford. Jpg1954 (talk) 12:41, 16 December 2010 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jpg1954 (talk • contribs) 12:23, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Ken Iverson and APL- I am not sure the chronology in the Wiki article about Ken is correct. My understanding is that he developoed his private notation while still at home in remote Alberta, taking high school mathematics by correspondence course.

At any rate, the notation and the concept are all Ken's. But actually turning it into a working computer programming language is usually jointly attributed to Iverson and Falkoff. Ken was actively involved in the ongoing enhancements to the language, so I would not want to restrict his identity to "the mathematical basis of" APL. Jpg1954 (talk) 12:41, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

ETA that the wiki article about Ken says that he, "working with Adin Falkoff, created APL based on the notation he had developed." Given that, do we need a separate citation here?

Jpg1954 (talk) 03:20, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

"remained at Yorktown" isn't quite correct

"Gunn remained at Yorktown until his retirement in 1990" isn't quite correct.

He remained with IBM, but he spent a couple of years at Company Headquarters in Armonk, NY on the Corporate Technology Committee (mid 70s), and a couple of years at the labs in San Jose CA working on Disk drives (mid 80s).

Not sure how to word it since I do not remember the specific years. Jpg1954 (talk) 19:13, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Converging rapidly

1. New heading and opening statement optimal. My quibble about "discovered phenomenon ..." was wrong -- present wording is accepted usage, as in Rudolf Mössbauer -- "he discovered the Mossbauer effect" and so on.

  OK Jpg1954 (talk) 05:20, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

2. Curator, Professor and Section are capitalized in web sites describing their activities -- titles as opposed to informal descriptors. Oxford University is acceptable as informal description of University of Oxford (according to their website)

  OK Jpg1954 (talk) 05:20, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

3. Is my current rewording of final sentence ok. It is completely accurate while side stepping nuances of Cambridge terminology. He studied "physics" (within the Natural Sciences Tripos, but no need to mention this nuance); he got a BA (without specifying it was from the University and not the College). Not taking an MA is bizarre enough to warrant mention, but I kept it casual. (Note: the article points out that Jack was given an honorary MA so he could be a Professor at Oxford U. Ask any woman who graduated from Cambridge before early 1950s -- there was a gender bar on eligibility, which excluded women from rights in [2])

   Which rewording of the last sentence? Jpg1954 (talk) 05:20, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

"He was an undergraduate at Trinity College, Cambridge from 1945 to 1948, studied physics, and graduated with a B.A, but did not take an M.A."Michael P. Barnett (talk) 02:16, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Sounds fine to me. Jpg1954 (talk) 04:02, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

4. I downloaded the University of British Columbia calendar yesterday -- but it does not mention Gunn. I think it is the wrong year.

    He arrived at UBC in October 1956, so might not be listed for the '56-'57 academic year.  He was at UBC for the full '57-'58 and '58-'59 academic years. Jpg1954 (talk) 05:20, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

I agree he is there. Yesterday, I used the pdf search. It did not find him. Today, I scrolled and found him. When I cut and paste his name into the search key box, it appeared as Gunk !!! Seems to be an Adobe glitch. Michael P. Barnett (talk) 02:16, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Probably an OCR problem. Elsewhere I found "IBM" turned into "IRM" Jpg1954 (talk) 04:02, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

5. I really like "refusing to accept ..."

  It was very definitely "refusing to accept".  He was told by his management to stop wasting time on getting measurements for Gallium Arsenide, because it was known to be unreliable, and to get on with his other tasks.  He ignored them, and continued without telling them what he was doing.   Jpg1954 (talk) 05:20, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

6. "and was IBM granted a patent" must be a typo. Have turned it around. Was patent only in name of IBM or joint between IBM and Gunn. I do not remember IBM practice. Some companies let the employee share awardee name, but would not be surprised if IBM did not. Is a patent granted or awarded or issued? Would patent number be a nice reference?

   Should be "IBM was granted a patent".  
    The IEEE Spectrum article says "...the patent, “Electrical field responsive solid state devices,” issued in January 1968." But Google search brings it up (http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3365583.html ) 

as "ELECTRIC FIELD-RESPONSIVE SOLID STATE DEVICES" United States Patent 3365583 Inventors:Gunn, John B. Publication Date:01/23/1968 Assignee:IBM

  So I am not sure the correct terminology- is it the "inventor" or the "assignee" that is granted the patent?Jpg1954 (talk) 05:20, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

From Patent#Ownership I think "the patent Electrical field responsive solid state devices was granted to Gunn as inventor and IBM as assignee." is safe. But just saw later comment from GyroMagician and agree with him. Michael P. Barnett (talk) 02:16, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

7. Should there be hyphens in Ridley Watkins Hilsum ? Incidentally, I just looked at the entry and the system considers it an orphan. Need we try to remedy this.

  No idea Jpg1954 (talk) 05:20, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Google search using "Ridley Watkins Hilsum" gave links to WP without hyphen, not surprisingly, then a slew of links to IEEE papers with hyphen. I will put it in. Also will de-orphanize it.Michael P. Barnett (talk) 02:16, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

8. I made Hall effect and quantum electronics links. Wonder if Quantum electronics (which is thinnest article I have seen) should be redirected into Quantum optics with explanation it is old terminology. Not my field.

  Not mine eitherJpg1954 (talk) 05:20, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

I will do this in due course.Michael P. Barnett (talk) 02:16, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

9. Also, Gunn diode tagged with "This article needs attention from an expert on the subject." Ouch. Should it be absorbed and redirected, strengthened??

   I'd like to see it strengthened, but I am not an expert.Jpg1954 (talk) 05:20, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

I put in the bibliography from the Kroemer paper, and I will put in applications listed in U. Linz article -- most or all have links to other WP articles. I have hopes of getting expert review.Michael P. Barnett (talk) 02:16, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Great Jpg1954 (talk) 04:02, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

9. I would like to make one more style change, but not before consultation. This is to insert, between the two final paragraphs under Research Career, something along the lines "The simple accounts of the Gunn effect are amongst many that are on-line. The further accounts are typical of the text-book coverage." where the first three references are to the items now listed as "External links". This is because I would like mention of "Further reading" and such like to be absorbed into the body of an article, with an explanation of why I should take my time and use computer and communication resources to go to another site (and keep track of the hyperlinking tree I am growing). With print material, I want to know why I should go to the library, or get someone to bring it to me. And attaching reference numbers to the further reading makes referencing easier in later documents. But don't want to be a pain about this.

  OK by me Jpg1954 (talk) 05:20, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

10. Any suggestions on a textbook. "Understanding Solid State Physics" by Sharon Ann Holgate looks good on Amazon website, but I do not know when I can get to a copy. (Is there a WP email "poste restante" -- I am getting to point where I think it might be helpful for division of effort if my logistic opportunities and constraints, that I don't want to broadcast "in clear" were known to co-editors).

  Don't know Jpg1954 (talk) 05:20, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

From the blurb I think it reasonable to assume Holgate covers the topic. I emailed customer service at Taylor & Francis this morning to make sure, and will put it in tentatively.Michael P. Barnett (talk) 02:16, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

11. As regards the present external links, the 2nd and 3rd are more or less boiler plate, but the 1st is to notes for an elementary U. Oklahama course that does not show up on some browsers. I think the WP article would be better off without it. There are much better accounts on web, but course notes have a habit of vanishing, and WP articles is supposed to be durable. Also, there was a link to U. Linz web article that IS good (except all of its external links are dud) that has vanished. It has photo of Gunn's lab book entry. [3] Would be nice to get it. But in general, how much use should we make of urls on sites that may change name? I think it is weak. Michael P. Barnett (talk) 04:07, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

  There is a picture of the notebook in the IEEE Spectrum article, which should be "durable". Jpg1954 (talk) 05:20, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

If it is not copyrighted (and I assume it is not, if U.Linz displays it) would copying it into the article be difficult?Michael P. Barnett (talk) 02:16, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

The one in the Linz article- which is just part of the page- can be copied and pasted by itself, so presumably could be uploaded to Wikipedia. No idea how to tell if it is copyrighted.

The one in the Spectum article is the whole page (and has a name ".Andy Schenk", presumably the photographer), and I can't seem to copy it independantly of the rest of the page.  I expect that one IS copyrighted.  Jpg1954 (talk) 04:02, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Michael, did you try to make an edit before posting these comments? If so, it didn't take for some reason - you don't show up in the edit history (History tab at the top of the article page) since Dec 12th. GyroMagician (talk) 14:04, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps Michael was making edits at the same time as I was moving it from "John Battiscombe" to "J.B.", and it fell through the cracks? Jpg1954 (talk) 14:33, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

I just fixed the "IBM Fellow" date in the infobox. Which made me realize there is no date for IEEE Fellow. When I tried earlier, I couldn't find a date. Jpg1954 (talk) 18:38, 18 December 2010 (UTC) Jpg1954 (talk) 18:38, 18 December 2010 (UTC) ETA that the IEEE obit says "Fellow", but does not give a date.

References

The plot thickens

Yes, I did try to make some small editing changes. I will redo these a bit later. It will be trivial. But I thought I should mention first that trying (unsuccessfully) to download the Kroemer and Voelcker papers led me to the bibliography of a paper by Herbert Kroemer that I just cut and paste into Talk:Gunn diode. I had not made the connection with his Nobel prize. Just to complicate, one of the authors in the bibliography is Paul Butcher, who I was going to check on next week as a possible RRE alumnus who should be mentioned in history of RRE.Michael P. Barnett (talk) 02:16, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

It would be nice if we could ask Kroemer who knew what when, but he is not listed in USCB Emeritus faculty. I will try to find out if he is email-able and, if so, will ask whatever you tell me to, if you don't want to identify yourselves. Michael P. Barnett (talk) 17:04, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Fine with me, but if you are going to contact Kroemer, it would make sense to contact Chynoweth as well. I found this website http://ebiz.netopia.com/fusfeldgroup/alanchynoweth/ which has a link to contact him. Jpg1954 (talk) 17:51, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Will do. Michael P. Barnett (talk) 02:16, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Affiliation.

I found this page on the IEEE site (but it appears to be from IBM JOURNAL • NOVEMBER 1964)

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?arnumber=05392206 which lists his affiliations.

"J. B. Gunn

B.A., 1948, Cambridge. Was Research Engineer, Elliott Bros. Ltd., (London) 1948 to 1953. Awarded Junior Research Fellowship, Royal Radar Establishment, Great Malvern, 1953 to 1956. Assistant Professor, Physics Department, University of British Columbia, 1956 to 1959. Joined IBM Research at Poughkeepsie, 1959. Is now Staff Member, Research Division, Yorktown."

So it appears he was NOT a "Senior Government Research Fellow" at RRE. Would "Junior Government Research Fellow" be the appropriate title? Jpg1954 (talk) 18:13, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes. Having a Fellowship was not a big deal amongst people at Malvern quite rightly, but it certainly was a big help on CV's later. Incidentally, I think Ian's dog introduced us. Several of the staff brought their dogs onto the site, and when it rained, the dogs came in to the building. I think Ian's dog attached himself to me one rainy day, and Ian came looking for him. Given the picture of Ian with a dog in the obit, would it be too flippant to mention somewhere that he was a dog lover?Michael P. Barnett (talk) 02:16, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

That would have been Wolf, a Samoyed, and a wedding present from his mother, who bred them. Wolf had to be left behind in England. As an adult, the only time he didn't have a dog was at UBC, where they were forbidden in the faculty housing. Even there, he tried to take in a stray, which got him in trouble, as the head of the Physics Dept (Shrum) was also in charge of enforcing the no-dogs rule. One of the first things he did after arriving in the US was to get a dog (a golden retriever/coonhound cross). He got another Samoyed in '71, and had at least one Samoyed (sometimes two) until he died. yes, it would be fine to say he was a dog lover. Jpg1954 (talk) 04:02, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

The dog picture is not copyrighted, so feel free to upload it if you think it appropriate. Jpg1954 (talk) 18:11, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

I just succeeded in downloading the UBC Calendar link, and it DOES list him - pg 15 of the PDF, but labeled pg 23 in the text. Jpg1954 (talk) 18:52, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, he's in there. I added a page no. to the ref to make it clearer. I also tried finding him in the preceding year, but he isn't present.

Sorry about that -- I found him too, explanation aboveMichael P. Barnett (talk) 02:16, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

The Gunn diode article should certainly be strengthened, not absorbed here (the effect and the person are different topics). It's not my field either, so I'm not so much use there. GyroMagician (talk) 19:38, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

I added the patent as an inline ref. I don't think we need to explicitly say it was granted to IBM, it's obvious from the context. The title on the patent is "ELECTRIC FIELD-RESPONSIVE SOLID STATE DEVICES" but the corrections on th last page indicate that it should be "ELECTRIC FIELD RESPONSIVE SOLID STATE DEVICES". I also ried to re-order the research career section. I think it's confusing to mix up the timeline (where he worked when) with his discovery of the Gunn effect. What do you think? Does this re-order help? GyroMagician (talk) 20:35, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I think the reorder helps.

Me too Michael P. Barnett (talk) 02:16, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

It occurs to me that, while there are plenty of references to Ken Iverson as one of the inventors of APL, there may not be any references to Ken's house in Glen Riddle being the same house that Ian lived in during the 30s. Does that mean I should remove that sentence? Jpg1954 (talk) 20:52, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

That's certainly a tough one to source! The sentence isn't vital to the article, so I think it can stay - if you promise it's true ;-) If it is ever challenged we may have to remove it, but I think the chances of that happening are slim (unless we are trying for GA or FA status). GyroMagician (talk) 22:29, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

I agree Michael P. Barnett (talk) 02:16, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

---

Being cautious

I just started to edit the actual article, and could not see the changes that I expected, such as page number in UBC calendar. So I will hold off making changes described above to the article, until you give me go ahead that all the changes you have described are in place Michael P. Barnett (talk) 02:34, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

---

Reassured

Had too many windows open. Was looking at wrong one. Will proceed Michael P. Barnett (talk) 02:42, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

---

Proceeded

(1) Made the editorial changes to the J.B. Gunn page, agreed above. (2) Put links from J. B. Gunn, Gunn diode and Cyril Hilsum to Ridley Watkins Hilsum theory, creating need (1.1) to move article titled "Ridley Watkins Hilsum theory" to "Ridley-Watkins-Hilsum theory" and (1.2) to change [[Ridley Watkins Hilsum theory|Ridley-Watkins-Hilsum theory]] to [[Ridley-Watkins-Hilsum theory]] . (3) Transferred content of article titled "Quantum electronics" and its Discussion to end of Quantum optics, leaving need to clean it up. (4) Put in reference to Holgate text tentatively. (5) Left emailing Alan Chynoweth until tomorrow. Michael P. Barnett (talk) 04:23, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

How would you feel about losing the line "The simple accounts[10][11] of the Gunn effect are from standard on-line sources. The account[12] provides text-book coverage."? I think we should try to keep this page about the man, rather than the effect. Those references may be better placed on the Gunn diode page. GyroMagician (talk) 18:18, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Michael P. Barnett (talk • contribs) 22:13, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

1. I agree. It is gone. I will paste into Discussion of Gunn diode after saving this page.

2. I have a printout of a very useful article about Gunn diode that is on a University of Linz physics department server that has been down for a few days. I have emailed a friend with strong U.Linz connections to help make contact. It includes a list of applications of sensors that use Gunn effect that contains 15 items. I checked 7 of these. They can all be linked to existing WP articles. The others look as if they can, too. I will cut and paste this into the Gunn diode Discussion when I can view it electronically again.

The Linz paper is also on line here

http://www.nhn.ou.edu/~johnson/Education/Juniorlab/Microwave/Gunn%20Effect.pdf Jpg1954 (talk) 23:26, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

3. I moved "Ridley Watkins Hilson" to Ridley-Watkins-Hilson. The message acknowledging the change seems to state that the system will change links automatically. I will wait until tomorrow to see whether this has happened and, if not, do it manually.

It eventually did it automatically when I moved this page. Jpg1954 (talk) 23:30, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

4. I think Ridley-Watkins-Hilsum entry too thin for article on its own. Will dig around for what it might be moved into.

5. I want to back out of the Gunn diode after action described above, and I do not want to get into the Quantum electronics / Quantum optics material which requires a lot of expert work to clean up. We are only linked to it because I took catch phrases from titles of Gunn's papers to show range of topics he investigated. Will try to get better choice of catch words that do not link to articles that are weak.

6. Will start on putting information into Royal Radar Establishment from R.A. Smith's obit, unless you think another article would be better place. Plan initially to list names of people the obit mentions + people who went on to make contributions to their respective fields who are not mentioned, giving name, institution, field and reference to one or two publication -- Paul Butcher, Geoffrey Chester (Cornell), Ian Gunn, David Howarth (U. Manchester), Michael Radcliffe (Carnegie Tech). Now, a quandary. Can I include me? Michael P. Barnett (talk) 22:53, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

I like the idea of listing scientists who spent time at RRE a lot - there were some surprising names there, in it's time. But this is a discussion we should have on the RRE talk page (it's on my watch list), to make sure we include other potentially interested people there.

I don't mind (too much) linking to weak pages - it may encourage someone else to improve that page. Cherry-picking a few topics is okay, if that is what Gunn actually worked on. The RWH page is very thin, but I don't know where it would naturally be integrated. I'm really not the person to write for either the Gunn effect or RWH, but someone out there must be. Sometimes placing a little information on the talk page is enough to spark someone into action.

Including yourself is potentially tricky (I've seen this go very well and very badly). The accepted method is, I think, to put some info on the talk page and let another editor do the actual article writing. So, if you make a start on RRE, then give me some pointers, I'll write you in ;-) I'm curious now... (tell me there, not here) GyroMagician (talk) 23:55, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Speaking of RRE, you will be amused that the first version of the IEEE obit for Gunn placed RRE in "Malvern, PA". You would think the IEEE would know better. Jpg1954 (talk) 00:06, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Pah, these Americans think everything is based in the US! (kidding!) GyroMagician (talk) 00:27, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Update Dec 20

1. Just packed following into form to contact Chynoweth: "Dear Alan, The sentence "Alan Chynoweth ..." about your 1965 talk on Gunn effect mentioned in Voelcker's 1989 paper is in current Wikipedia "J. B. Gunn" entry I'm helping revise. We need your input. Hope you have time to look. Michael" Hope it gets through.

2. I like the note about the MA. But it would be even more acceptable to the girls if it ended "was automatic for men, at the time". I hope my reason for asking is easily deducible. Would ensure continued backup. Michael P. Barnett (talk) 12:08, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm glad you like it. Yes, your reasons are clear - but I want to avoid putting in too much detail, in what is intended to be a brief note. I was thinking more of our international readership, who will likely never have heard of some of the peculiarities of Oxbridge. Surprisingly, I didn't find mention of women's rights on the linked MA page, where such a note surely belongs. GyroMagician (talk) 12:28, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

You should definitely put something on the Oxbridge MA page. But I must say I find it odd to refer to female undergrads/grads, as a group, as "girls". As an individual- I would say "I knew a girl at University who did such and such". But as a group, I would call then "women". Jpg1954 (talk) 18:33, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

MA automatically awarded

I am not sure that "automatically awarded" is the right phrase, since you do need to a) apply and b) pay a fee. Maybe "automaticcally entitled to" ot "automatically elegible for". Jpg1954 (talk) 12:12, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, you're right. I like "...automatically eligible for...", I'll fix it. GyroMagician (talk) 12:17, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

How about "This was somewhat unusual, as he was automatically eligible for an MA." which is even shorter, or "... his BA made him ..." These are completely accurate, without drawing attention to basis of concern about wording.

My initial rewording may have seemed a bit strident and it was disproportionate in length to overall article (and I am concerned about excessive chips on shoulders, consequent on a statement in article about John Clarke Slater that is demonstrably misleading as well; and what has become a cause celebre about another scientist where I was at least able to provide some factual information to a biographer who took note). Michael P. Barnett (talk) 15:20, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Book details posted on Gunn diode

Ran successful search this afternoon !

More references

I added the reference to APL Virus functions (taken from the computer virus page. But I am not sure how to add the regenerative braking ref. It is section IX of an internal IBM document, titled "Report to the Director of Research by the Energy Task Force ("ETF") January 31, 1974. It was once IBM Confidential, but is now clearly makred- on every page "No longer IBM Confidential". The title of Section 9 is "Energy Conserving and Computer Dependent Private Car (with Outline and Notes on Possible Developments in Energy Conservation and Computer Control for Private Cars. The authors of section 9 are J. Cocke, "J.B. Ian Gunn", and R.A Toupin. It isn't JUST about regenerative braking, but includes lots of other concepts, including a high pressure hydraulic system as a way of storing energy, and number of things that are now quite common practice. Anyway, how do I reference it? Jpg1954 (talk) 04:00, 21 December 2010 (UTC) It appears the multi-valued logic work may be "unpublished". The Philosophical Computer Exploratory Essays in Philosophical Computer Modeling Patrick Grim, Gary Mar and Paul St May 1998 ISBN 0-262-07185-1 says "17. J. B. Gunn has done significant work in solving various self-referential sentences in this sense. See for example "Notes on an Algebraic Logic of Self-Reference," unpublished. I am obliged to Gunn for extensive and very helpful correspondence.—PG" How do I reference that? Jpg1954 (talk) 04:19, 21 December 2010 (UTC) ETA- that is what he was working on when he retired from IBM. Jpg1954 (talk) 04:21, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

I think answer to a question I asked in another connection covers it -- will look tomorrow.Michael P. Barnett (talk) 04:39, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

RRE page

I made a start expanding it. Ragged, but there is a tomorrow. Michael P. Barnett (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 04:37, 21 December 2010 (UTC).

Comment on Jpg1954 question about referencing

User:Michael P. Barnett/Gunn research shows suggested restructuring. Mentioning once confidential now not is not necessary. Nice to have a publisher for Grim's writing. But I think we can proceed without it, and look for it later Michael P. Barnett (talk) 18:48, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

I replied there (your user page). Jpg1954 (talk) 20:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

better ref for IEEE Liebmann Memorial Prize Award

parking it here until I have a chance to put it in the article http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?arnumber=05215467

"This paper appears in: Spectrum, IEEE Issue Date: Dec. 1968 Volume: 5 Issue: 12 On page(s): 12 - 21 ISSN: 0018-9235 Digital Object Identifier: 10.1109/MSPEC.1968.5215467"

"E. C. Starr, E. W. Allen, Jr., and J. B. Gunn are the winners of three IEEE Field Awards"

"and John B. Gunn (F) will receive the Morris N. Liebmann Memorial Prize Award "for contributions to solid-state microwave power generation." Jpg1954 (talk) 16:50, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Jpg1954 (talk • contribs) 15:22, 22 December 2010 (UTC) 

Found a the date on which he became IEEE Fellow

ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel5/16/31752/01478475.pdf

Electron Devices, IEEE Transactions on Issue Date: Jul 1976 Volume: 23 Issue: 7 On page(s): c4 - c4 ISSN: 0018-9383 Digital Object Identifier: 10.1109/T-ED.1976.18483 Date of Current Version: 09 August 2005 says (according to Google)

"J. B. Gunn (SM'66-F'68) was born in Cairo,. Egypt, in 1928. ..." Jpg1954 (talk) 21:33, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Waste of time

I wasted considerable time on the Royal Radar Establishment article, because an Administrator wanted verifiable notability in WP sense of people described as "eminent" in RA obit. Wrote accordingly on Royal Radar Establishment Discussion page and User:John of Reading Talk page. Michael P. Barnett (talk) 02:09, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Pictures

What sort of pictures would it make sense to add?

Won't have a chance to do anything about it until afte Xmas

Early life -

Iain and Jack with sled at Glen Riddle

Family portrait with Iain, Jack, Meena, Pat(Spike), Meena's parents and a couple of cousins

Research career

Picture (with his family,including dog, and with Peter Graystone's family) immediately before leaving Malvern for Vancouver (a copy appears in a newspaper clipping dated Sept '56, which does not indicate the name of the newspaper, but the original photo does not say anything about copyright)

Pictures from IBM in the lab in the '60s (individual/close up as opposed to the group photo currently on the article)

Motorcycle racing

Pictures from the 50s in UK

Pictures from the 60s - '90s in US

Picture with dog

Jpg1954 (talk) 19:06, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Getting to a plateau

Closure would be nice, but WP principle seems to leave matters open to perpetuity. However, we could aim for a plateau. If there is agreement on the restructuring in my User page, should I move it over (by cut and paste, not WP move). Re pictures. Can we get permission for the IEEE obit picture of Ian with dog so we can mention he was a dog lover or dog person or whatever. If my memory serves me ok on this, it was his dog that introduced him to me, and but for that dog, this project might never have come to pass. Michael P. Barnett (talk) 20:46, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Why would we need permission from IEEE, since I own the original of the dog picture, and can certainly get permission from the photographer? Jpg1954 (talk) 05:06, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

I assumed it had come from Spectrum article -- had not looked at coding. I have been staying clear of RRE until Kunpung reappears, but did try testing water this morning with article about Rosalind Franklin. Incidentally, from that article: "In the winter of 1938 Franklin went to Newnham College, Cambridge. She passed her finals in 1941, but was awarded only a titular degree, as women were not entitled to degrees (BA Cantab.) from Cambridge at the time". Michael P. Barnett (talk) 02:07, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Is there a place to put family information (wife, children)? Jpg1954 (talk) 18:20, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

More info

I found some more references. I have updated the latter part of his career, based on the IBM Research article.

I have also found an interview (IEEE Student Journal May 1969)in which he described his undergraduate work as "I took two years of the natural sciences - physics, chemistry, mathematics and so on. In the last year I was able to switch to electronic engineering, which was something that was just started at Cambridge at that time."

Not sure how to reconcile that with your email from Trinity which refers to mechanical science. Jpg1954 (talk) 03:46, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Not sure I can incorporate it into the article, but I found a letter from RA Smith (to IBM Director of Research) in which he says "I was in some ways responsible for getting J.B. Gunn into first line semiconductor physics research. I hired him as a Research Fellow when I was Director of Research of the Physics Laboratory at RRE in Malvern, England in the face of considerable opposition from some of my colleagues who were not impressed by Gunn's unconventional approach. ..."

Jpg1954 (talk) 03:58, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Details 1/6/11

1. Reconciliation "electronic engineering" and "Mechanical Science" easy. Phrases in which first letters are lower case are informal descriptors. Phrases in which first letters are capital are formal University categorizations. Quite possible Cambridge put electronic engineering in Mechanical Science. So how about "Official records show that Gunn studied ... (in the terminology Cambridge used for its curricula)<ref>''Alumna records of Trinity College, Cambridge for 1946 to 1948''</ref> and, as he put it informally ... .<ref>IEEE Student Journal May 1969</ref>".

I think it entirely reasonable to provide this detail, because it could help clarify comparable situations for other people (in my own case, my Ph.D. came before the Board of Chemical Studies because, as a graduate of the University of London, my higher degree had to come before the Board of Studies responsible for my first degree. Had I got my B.Sc. anywhere else, I could have picked the board to which I submitted my Ph.D., chosen Applied Mathematics, and not had to spend three months on a hydrogen fluoride calculation that let me mention a specific chemical by name (which the Chairman told me was advisable).

2. I think we cannot use letter from R.A. now, but am looking into online archives which might take material like it, making it WP verifiable.

3. Don't want to be a pest, but the following rewording of the note is literally correct, without drawing attention to the restriction to men at that time.

"This was somewhat unusual, because his BA degree from Cambridge made him automatically eligible for a Cambridge MA, too."

The Girton College website mentions the early restriction and its removal and refers, for coverage of the topic, to: University Politics, by Gordon Johnson, Cambridge University Press, 1994. I should have a page reference by early next week.

The present statement is literally correct, today, but was not at the time Gunn graduated. The question crops up again in the Rosalind Franklin article, and even the article University of Cambridge does not explain the nuances completely.

$. My highly prejudiced view is the more "verifiable" dog data the better -- but I think that limits us to "was a dog lover (see picture)" and see if anyone starts complaining that is OR, interpreting the picture rather than referring to it. Michael P. Barnett (talk) 01:43, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

P.S. In case not obvious I got my B.Sc. at U London Michael P. Barnett (talk) 01:45, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

That all sounds good.

My sister took the dog picture, so I need to get an email with her permission. I spoke to her on the phone yesterday, but she is in the "wilds' of Florida without good internet access, so it will have to wait a couple of weeks.

My only experience with HF is a) you use it to clean silicon wafers b) you can not store it in a glass bottle.

Jpg1954 (talk) 02:28, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

I think I have addressed 1 and 3. Jpg1954 (talk) 20:48, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Looks great. I had an attack of copy-editing, wondered if I should send a list of minutiae then thought easiest if I made the changes and reversed them if you prefered things the way they were. My rationale:

1. cheap -> inexpensive -- I associate "cheap" with tatty and "cheapskate"

2. ... -> The young boy -- Technically "At this age ..." did not have a referent -- after tinkering a bit I came up with present wording -- absolutely no strong feeling about it

3. At start of next paragraph, inserted "Gunn" for variety, relative to previous sentence starting "The family"

4. Don't know if "University of Oxford" formality better than breezier-ness of "Oxford University" -- no strong feeling.

5. I put in a space after a right parenthesis somewhere

Anyhow, I do NOT feel strongly about any of these and will reverse them if you like.

The one outstanding question though, is this -- and it is back where I started, looking for Ian Gunn and being quite disconcerted that my memory was failing when I found John Battiscombe. Could we have a page for Ian Gunn that redirects. If so, someone not me had better do it in view of what happened this morning when I tried to start a page for the quantum chemistry Shelter Island conference.

OK if I email Luis Bonilla about the Gunn diode? Apropos RRE, you or GyroMagician expressed preference for format I had altered, but not sure what it was.

The article now is really great. Could be exemplar for discussing athletic interests of scientists (and humanist scholars) extensively in other articles. Maybe first step is to ensure web search on "scientist" + "sport" or other keyword picks up the Gunn article. "Gunn motorcycle" does on Google. I tried "physics motorcycle" and got rich return on physics of motorcycling. But maybe you want closure on this article too. Michael P. Barnett (talk) 01:43, 10 January 2011 (UTC) Michael P. Barnett (talk) 01:43, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Just noticed, this is C class !!!???Michael P. Barnett (talk) 03:34, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Your changes look fine to me. Jpg1954 (talk) 03:41, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

I Think I have created a redirect from Ian Gunn to J. B. Gunn. Let me know if it works for you. Jpg1954 (talk) 04:00, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. It works. Should I email Bonilla? Michael P. Barnett (talk) 10:39, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes please Jpg1954 (talk) 12:14, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Catching up

Hello both (and other wikipedians), and Happy New Year. I've been rather busy for the past month so I have some catching up to do. I see this article has been progressing nicely in my absence. I've been through and given it another copy edit (it's amazing the difference a short absence makes - I can actually read th page, rather than simply reciting it now!). As a minor tweak, Jpg1954, could you move the ref for Motorcycle Racing to attach it to a sentence in the body text, rather than the title? I don't have the original source, so I'd prefer not to do it myself.

Regarding the article assessment, I'm not sure we can take it much further. Have a look at Category:GA-Class_biography_(science_and_academia)_articles to see some examples of GAs (Good Articles). We could ask for re-assessment. I think this page is just about finished - I can't see anything obvious missing. Would you both agree? GyroMagician (talk) 15:43, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

I moved the ref. When my sister gets back to Internet access, so she can officialy give permission, I intend to upload the picture with the dog. Other than that, I don't have any plans for additional text. But if we do get someone who is more of an expert to review the Gunn Diode article, that might generates some small changes here.

Happy New Year Jpg1954 (talk) 16:34, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Picture with dog will be a nice addition. Finding those personal details is usually the hard part on Wikipedia - it's really unusual to have two of you who seem to be well acquainted with the person who is the subject of the article, and certainly makes writing it much easier!

Once we all agree we're done, I think we have two options available. The first is to request assessment from the WP Biography project. That could get us upgraded to B, at most, if we pass the mark. Alternatively, we could go straight for a GA review. Somebody will then agree to take on the review, post an assessment, give us a shortish period to fix any problems or omissions, and either pass or fail the article - you can see an example of an assessment of a place, rather than a person, here. If the article fails as a GA there is basically no change, if it passes it will be listed as a GA and we can pat ourselves on the back. I think the article is pretty complete, and has a good chance at a GA. Whoever takes on the assessment will be well versed in Wikipedia, but is unlikely to be more of an expert on Gunn or his work! GyroMagician (talk) 17:54, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

I added the dog picture. On the family picture, the visible caption only mentions Ian. You have to click on the picture to get the list of the others in the picture. Would it be better to include the others (especially the ones with their own Wikipedia articles) in the visible caption? Jpg1954 (talk) 15:19, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

I agree - add the full list to the caption. I've been through the page with the gadgets from toolserve (checking for broken links, etc), and all is now clean. The only comment was that the introduction is a bit short, but I'm not sure how it migh usefully be extended. Other than that, I think we're ready for a GA review. GyroMagician (talk) 19:32, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

I am very happy with article as is. As regards Gunn diode, I emailed a faculty member in the U.S. last week, and he is asking a colleague in Europe to review it too. Which raises a question that must (?) have been discussed on previous occasions when an article got expert review. For verifiability, we have to give source. But that is private communication. Conceivably, the expert gives citations for comments, but typically will just make statements based on personal expertize. I would not feel comfortable, after a world authority on a topic, with heavy administrative as well as research commitments, has extended generosity of reviewing a WP piece, of going back to ask for additional material for WP verifiability, which non wikipedians may consider a bit much. Also, principles of scientific integrity require identification of contributor in this situation. Hopefully, we can put his (their) comments in quotes (I hope there is a WP rule against an Editor changing a quotation in this circumstance). Anyhow, is this something I need worry about now? Michael P. Barnett (talk) 21:35, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

I give Freda's (wife) birth and death dates twice. It is probably only needed once, but I am not sure which one to drop. Jpg1954 (talk) 21:54, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

I have no idea about the expert review on the Gunn Diode article. Possibly the person should get a Wiki log-in, and just make the edits, while putting the reason for the edits on the talk page.

Jpg1954 (talk) 22:27, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

That would be best solution. But the idea of asking someone who has done us a favour to then do what he / she might consider busy work, with the risk of wiki-legalistic attack, makes me apprehensive. Maybe best thing to do is continue looking for precedents and, in the event, try literature searching ourselves for "verification" of statements that are made. I really had raised the topic when I did in hope precedent had been looked for and found by time feedback arrived.

Michael P. Barnett (talk) 19:08, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

375MM

Added ref for the article about his 375 MM in Cavallino 180. Jpg1954 (talk) 03:22, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

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