Talk:Jaban al-Kurdi
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Sources?
editWhere does this man exist? It is the first time I've heard of him, and nothing yields results about him...--MercZ (talk) 03:55, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
- You can read in the article: Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani mentions in his book Finding the Truth in Judging the Companinons, 10 hadithes which are quoted by Jaban.. There is a lot of material in Arabic and Kurdish about him; like this article in Arabic: [[1]]. Bashuri (talk) 21:32, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
His name is very fishy. I dont think the word kurdi would have been used at the time, since in the prophets time kurd was not a ethnic designation, and if he existed at that time al-kurdi wouldent be used but another ethnic desigination. Just saying this seems fishy, atleast the name is a later invention. I know of 3 usages of the word kurd for a people before this, both is a exonym for nomadic people, one the amardi in northen iran is called kurds in military action, another unknow nomad group called kurd in todays kerman, and the mountain passes near the sawa wich is unknow. So no people would refer to themself as kurds, since it seems those nomad used a diffrent name for themselfs, and other people called them kurds as a desigination. Much later then the prophets time is the ethnogenesis of kurds
I will say i never heard of him, and im very sure the Name is a retrofit, and those material you linked, its very troubling the original material is in Kurdish and then translated to arabic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.248.54.195 (talk) 15:41, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
Very strange sources
editThis source can't be taken serious: https://books.google.de/books?id=_saSCgAAQBAJ&pg=PT174&lpg=PT174&dq=Jaban+al-Kurdi&redir_esc=y&hl=de#v=onepage&q=Jaban%20al-Kurdi&f=false I mean it states that a) Prophet Abraham(s.) was of kurdish origin for which no evidences are provided whatsoever b) it states that some think that kurdish is the mother of many languages, including european languages. c) that arabic gained from the kurdish language and borrowed several of its terms ...... Please delete this article or modify it to the point, it is objective. BergamottenTee (talk) 11:55, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
Unreliable and very few sources
editThere are currently 4 sources. (There used to be a few more, but they were removed as they were also not reliable.) 3 of the current sources are in Turkish and from news sites, and "assumptively" written by Kurds. This would normally be no problem, but they are the only sources. In one, the author claims that there was a person called Hz. Zozan, who is also the first Muslim Kurd. (Hz. or Hazreti means something like "saint" in Turkish and is used for Prophet Muhammad and other important Islamic people as well.) This is very fishy and needs skill to believe in, because conversion to Islam must have had a name change, and Zozan is a name that became popular or got into usage in the last century.[1] It also sounds very off. The fourth one is not clearly cited with page numbers. It makes me assume if in another source, a person claimed that this man was mentioned in Al-Isabah fi tamyiz al Sahabah, and this bit avoided deletion. By the way, despite sounding fancy and from the early medieval ages, Al-Isabah fi tamyiz al Sahabah was presumably created in 15th century but only got published in 19th century according to Wikipedia. So, even if we had a page number or access to it, it would still not be enough if this person really existed or was originally called Jaban al-Kurdi. Overall, this page should be a candidate for deletion due to a lack of reliable sources. Or we could find a source that really confirms this person existed (not necessarily as Jaban al-Kurdi, because that is clearly out of question). Ayıntaplı (talk) 18:26, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
- Yes, I agree the "al Kurdi" designation is suspicious. I propose that the article title be changed to "Jaban Abu Maymana," which is how it appears in the works of ibn al Athir and ibn Hajar al Askqalani and that the Kurdish name mentions be removed until someone can bring a reliable source proving the link. Chagropango (talk) 07:51, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
References
- ^ https://www.turkadlar.com/?c=&ad=zozan (Click "Yıllara göre dağılım" under "Kürt ismi," and you'll see a graph.)
Regarding Jaban Abu Maymun's historicity
editFrom discussions held above, it seems there's a lot of doubt as to whether Jaban Abu Maymun existed. For now, I'll include a little text in the lead of the article that indicates we're not exactly sure about Abu Maymun's existence. Aykazeb (talk) 08:28, 24 July 2023 (UTC)