Talk:Jacqueline Cochran

Harmon Trophy

Cochran received the Harmon Trophy five times: In 1938, 1939, 1940-1949, 1953 & 1961. Most Cochran biographies count the 1940-1949 period as ten awards, but it's really just one.Bollar 13:56, Mar 4, 2005 (UTC)

Early Life Scource

I am wondering what is the scoure for her Date of Birth, and parentage information? It's my understanding that she herself knew none of it. PPGMD 15:41, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

Yes, through my reading of her two biographies Stars at Noon and Jackie Cochran: An Autobiography it seems as though she didn't know her true parentage or birthdate. I believe the story she told was that she took what she thought to be her birthdate when she was 29 and subtracted or added four years? I'm unclear...I just did a bit of schoolwork on her, I might recheck-out the books from the library and clarify a bit, if you would like? I'm new so I don't really know how helpful I'd be. I think it should be added to the article the bit that Bollar said about the "Aviatrix of the Decade" award that was really just one award. Although I thought she won it in 1937 as well. (Balletgirl313 01:55, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC))

I can confirm that Jean Batten won the Harmon Trophy in 1937. Thanks for verifying the facts! Bollar 04:49, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

I've only ever read the '87 book, & I don't have it in front of me; when did she change her name? (And did she give a reason?) Trekphiler 10:59, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Cochran's Autobiography Was Invented

Superwoman Jacqueline Cochrane: Family Memories About the Famous Pilot, Patriot, Wife and Businesswoman, published in 2001 by Billie Pittman Ayers (Cochran's niece) and Beth Dees, makes clear that Cochran invented much of the life story that she told in Stars at Noon and elsewhere. In fact, she was born on May 11, 1906 in Muscogee, Florida, on the east bank of the Perdido River; her real name was Bessie Lee Pittman; and she was raised by her real parents (not foster parents to whom her real parents had traded her for a piece of land, as she claimed in Stars at Noon). Her family was poor, but not nearly as poor as she portrayed in Stars at Noon. In the 1920s, she was married and had a child four months later, the child died in a fire, and she filed for divorce (though it is apparently not clear that the divorce was ever granted). She also had an affair with a married man in DeFuniak Springs, Florida, a town where she lived for a number of years but which she never mentioned in public. She stayed in close touch with her real family for much of her life, although they were understandably miffed that she disowned them in public.69.138.179.162 11:40, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

GA nomination

I've failed the article as it still needs substantil amount of work to comply with GA requirements. Following are my observations, organized per those requirements:

1. As for the first requirement (It is well written),

• Per Wikipedia:Lead, the lead needs to be expanded so that it adequately summarizes the article.
• Per Wikipedia:Context and Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates) years can be linked only if they provide context for the article. I don't think that is the case here. Please delink them.
• Per Wikipedia:Context and Wikipedia:Build the web, years with full dates should be linked; for example, link January 15, 2006.
• Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (numbers), there should be a non-breaking space -   between a number and the unit of measurement. For example, instead of 100 km, use 100 km, which when you are editing the page, should look like: 100 km.
• It would be nice to add the persondata template, check Wikipedia:Persondata for more information. This is not mandatory, though
• Per Wikipedia:Guide to layout the last few sections should be reordered. Instead of References/External links/See also it should be See also/References/External links.
• Per in WP:FOOTNOTE, footnotes should be located right after punctuation marks.
• All one-sentence paragraphs should be expanded or merged.

• In the sentence Her contributions to the formation of the wartime Women's Auxiliary Army Corps (WAAC) and WASP (Womens Airforce Service Pilots), format should be standarized, either Name (Abbreviation) or Abbreviation (Name). I would go for the first form as follows: Women's Auxiliary Army Corps (WAAC) and Womens Airforce Service Pilots (WASP).
• In youngest of the five children of Mary (Grant) and Ira Pittman, why is Grant in parenthesis?
• The sentence and at age 15 left her home in DeFuniak Springs, Florida, working as a hairdresser until she wound up in New York City needs to be rewritten for clarity.
• In Only later did she meet Floyd Bostwick Odlum, the only does not make sense, as Floyd Bostwick has not been mentioned before
• The sentence Calling her line of cosmetics "Wings," she flew her own aircraft around the country promoting her products should be reworded to She called her line of cosmetics "Wings" and flew her own aircraft around the country to promote her products. It is better to write about historical facts in past tense.
• The sentence Years later, Odlum used his Hollywood connections to get Marilyn Monroe to endorse her line of lipstick seems irrelevant for this article.
• In Known by her friends as "Jackie," it should be "Jackie", instead of "Jackie,".
• In She had won the Bendix and set a new transcontinental speed record as well as altitude records (by this time she was no longer just breaking woman's records but was setting overall records), the parenthesis should be removed, a comma inserted between "records" and "by", and the last "was" deleted.
• In She was the first woman to break the sound barrier (with Chuck Yeager right on her wing), the whole phrase in parenthesis does not seem relevant
• In She won five Harmon Trophies as the outstanding woman pilot in the world, "as the" should be replaced by "for"
• Before the United States joined World War II, she was part of "Wings for Britain" should be Before the United States joined World War II, she was part of the program "Wings for Britain"
• Jackie Cochran wrote to Eleanor Roosevelt to introduce the proposal of starting a women's flying division should be Jackie Cochran wrote to Eleanor Roosevelt to propose the creation of a women's flying division
• The sentence (The WAAC was given full military status on 1 July 1943, thus making them part of the Army. At the same time, the unit was renamed Women's Army Corps [WAC].) should not be in parenthesis. It would be better in a footnote.
• The sentence (Ferrying Command was the air-transport service of the Army Air Corps; the command was renamed Air Transport Command in June 1942). should not be in parenthesis. It would be better in a footnote.
• because they wanted to be flying for (and in) the United States should be replaced by because they wanted to fly for (and in) the United States
• Postwar, she began flying the new jet engine aircraft should read Postwar, she flew the then new jet engine aircraft
• In the ONLY woman to ever be President of the Federation Aeronautique, "only" should be written in lower case
• In However, as a result of her involvement in politics and the military, she would become close friends', "she would become" should be replaced by "she became"
• In and she would play a major role in his successful campaign, "she would play" should be replaced by "she played"
• Despite her lack of education, Ms. Cochran had a quick mind and an affinity for business and the investment proved a lucrative one. What investment? You were just talking about the Ike campaign
• The sentence From many countries around the world, she received citations and awards would be better in active voice
• In '

2. As for the second requirement (It is factually accurate and verifiable),

• As a general rule all paragraphs should have at least one footnote.
• The paragraph that starts After a friend offered her a ride in an aircraft, a thrilled Jackie Cochran began taking flying lessons... lacks sources.
• The sentence That year, she also set a new woman's national speed record needs a reference, adding the speed achieved would also be nice.
• The sentence Sometimes called the "Speed Queen," at the time of her death, no pilot, man or woman, held more speed, distance or altitude records in aviation history, than Jackie Cochran needs a reference. http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Explorers_Record_Setters_and_Daredevils/EX_OV.htm Reference found.
• The paragraph that starts Also in 1940, Cochran wrote a letter to Colonel Robert Olds... lacks sources.
• The paragraph that starts In spite of pilot shortages, General Henry H. "Hap" Arnold was the person who... lacks sources.
• The paragraph that starts When General Arnold asked Cochran to go to Britain to study the ATA... lacks sources.
• The paragraph that starts She was also the first woman to land and take off from an aircraft carrier... lacks sources.
• The sentence Later, in 1951, the Boston Chamber of Commerce voted her one of the 25 outstanding businesswomen in America. In 1953 and 1954, the Associated Press named her "Woman of the Year in Business." needs a reference, also the quotation mark goes before the period
• The sentence Blessed by fame and wealth, she donated a great deal of time and money to charitable works needs a reference
• The paragraph that starts Jacqueline Cochran died on August 9, 1980 at her home in Indio... lacks sources.
• The paragraph that starts Her aviation accomplishments never gained the continuing media attention given those of Amelia Earhart... lacks sources.
• The section on her Awards lacks references
• The section "References" should be split into a section "Notes" with all the footnotes and a section "Bibliography" or "References" for an alphabetical listings of sources with full bibliographical details (year of publication, city, publisher, etc.). Also the books listed have not been used in any footnote. Have they been used for the article? If so they should be used in footnotes, if not they should be deleted or listed under "Further references".

3. As for the third requirement (It is broad in its coverage),

The article looks compliant.

4. As for the fourth requirement (It is neutral),

The article looks compliant.

5. As for the fifth requirement (It is stable),

The article looks compliant.

6. As for the sixth requirement (Any images it contains are appropriate),

The article looks compliant.

Please renominate after dealing with the objections. Good luck, --Victor12 16:24, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Hope I am doing this right -

Why was the Scott Carpenter quote moved out of the article and hidden down in the references? It is indicative of the discrimination Cochran and other women faced at that time, and particularly pertinent to the Woman in Space program. I could not find the quote in a web reference, but I heard it with my own ears at the hearings, a remark I will never forget. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.192.8.124 (talk) 03:43, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Telling the truth

Recent edit regarding Cochran's early life is a great addition but there's one problem: the new version gets rid of the single reference in that section; Cochran's own book "The Stars At Noon" along with a vague reference to the word of two friends. The new "Early Life" section has NO references. The additional information needs to have a citation to some published work. Binksternet (talk) 01:39, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

References

While self-published books are normally decried as unreliable sources, the deletion of a source that that an editor used for the early development of the article actually referred to a book written by a member of Cochran's family. There should be a "special case" exemption for materials such as this. Another example that I can think of is the book written by Amelia Earhart's sister which was essentially a short-run, self-published book but now highly sought-after as a reference source. As for the Howard Johns book, it appears to be a legitimate source that an editor has used, although the concerns of another editor may be valid but in erring on the side of caution, I have restored the entry for now. Waiting to hear from others on this topic. FWiW Bzuk (talk) 12:42, 15 May 2008 (UTC).

Since my latest revision, I have received more information that is indicative of a concentrated campaign to introduce this book on WIkipedia as "spam". Sorry for that, I will remove the entry, it did look a bit suspicious. FWiW Bzuk (talk) 12:47, 15 May 2008 (UTC).

Contradiction resolved

In the Legacy section where the article states "Nonetheless, she deserves a place in the ranks of famous women in history as one of the greatest aviators ever, and a woman who frequently used her influence to advance the cause of women in aviation", I appended that & cited my addition concerning the fact that she also opposed women astronauts in testimony to Congress. It was speculated at the time in the press that she did so because she was too old to be one herself. I felt it was important qualify the statement that she wasn't always in favor of advancing the causes of women, and rather than adding speculation (cited or uncited) that she did so out of jealousy, I left out the reasoning behind it to let the reader infer what they may about this chapter in her life.PhilOSophocle (talk) 07:58, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

I felt that your addition was already covered in large part down lower in the Mercury 13 paragraph. I moved your reference down to that section and took your text out of the lead. I didn't like the seeming estimate of "a generation" and the word "probably"... we need firm citations, not guesswork.

I think Cochran's opposition to the Mercury 13 program at its final stage is worth putting into the article, but it's more complicated than that. Cochran kept women down in other regards as well! I would like to see her reactionary views to having women pilots in the US Air Force brought in to the article. Post WWII, Cochran sided with her friends the top male Air Force pilots in making women in USAF unable to advance very far in rank, unable to fly, unable to command men. Cochran moved behind the scenes to counteract the advances in integration between men's and women's service forwarded by Women in the Air Force (WAF)'s first few commanders, from Colonel Geraldine Pratt May on. Cochran saw women as an elite separate arm, not integrated. Cochran gave her official opinion of WAF in 1950, saying that too many women had already entered and that they were not "the best" selections, whatever that meant. She equated good work with attractiveness and femininity, and pushed to keep women airmen from wearing practical clothing suitable to the job. Women were to wear short skirts, heels and makeup. Implicit in her recommendation was that there was only room for a very few women in the military air arm. American Women and Flight Since 1940. I'll have to take another look at Jeanne Holm's books to quote this information directly.

Cochran also opposed women in the military academies in 1974. The Pink Plan: A Fresh Perspective. Binksternet (talk) 13:07, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Cochran opposed non-white women fliers in the military and she opposed career women who would never marry or have children. This stance was, I believe, intended to rule out lesbians and serious hetero women who simply chose not to follow the path of their mothers. Cochran wanted women in the Air Force to be bright and alert cheerleader types who would lend an unchallenging but vivacious air up to the time they met the right guy and bowed out of the service. Binksternet (talk) 05:22, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

True or False

Having just read 'Sisters in Arms, British and American Women Pilots during WWII' by Helena Page Schrader I would say her research throws into question the validity of much of this article and it's very hard to know where to start. Interested parties will have to read the book to get the full flavour although Schrader sums up Cochran in her last chapter. I don't know if I'm allowed to quote it but the following is the antepenultimate paragraph.

'It would appear that a general tendency to over-estimate one's self and one's own relative importance in the world enabled a compulsive liar like Cochran to turn herself into a legend. No one who did not know her personally seemed to question the claims Cochran made for herself. She could without fear assert that she had set up the ATA training programme, or had 'years' of experience in military affairs or that she was the 'greatest woman pilot of all time'; the American public docilely accepted her claims. Now and then someone — General Tunner, Gerhard d'Erlanger or Nancy Love — might set the record straight, but their voices of reason were lost in the brash hooting of Cochran's own hornblowing.'

There is much, much more where that came from.

I open this up for discussion.

86.139.149.28 (talk) 13:12, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Use this source, attributing the opinions to the author. Schrader's voice is needed for balance. Binksternet (talk) 15:11, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Despite the revisionist tone of the Schrader work, Cochran was a superb flyer and rightfully could claim many of the accolades (she may have personally touted) from the public. FWiW Bzuk (talk) 16:14, 2 February 2010 (UTC).

Intro paragraph NEEDS to be expanded

Why is her feat of being the first woman to break the sound barrier, as well as the controversies surrounding her testimony of her own life, buried in the article and not in the opening paragraph? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.56.22.81 (talk) 07:31, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Mach 2 claim in Flying Records

No way no how did she do Mach 2 in a Northrop T-38 Talon. The page for that plane cites a top speed of 858 mph or Mach 1.3.Capnned (talk) 22:23, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

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