Talk:Jaffna International Airport

Military airport

A deluded editor believes this airport is civilian and is demanding reliable sources to show that it is only manned by the Sri Lanka Air Force personnel. He however has not provided any sources to show that this is a civilian airport. Nevertheless, here are the reliable sources to show that this is a military aiport:

• Sunday Times 02.08.15 - The Sri Lanka Air Force (SLAF)-manned Palali airport located in the Jaffna peninsula...
• Island 29.07.13 - The government pointed out to the visiting delegation that except for the Bandaranaike International Airport (BIA) and Mattala airport, all other airports in the country are managed by the SLAF though privately owned choppers and fixed wing aircraft use them.
• Island 26.11.00 - Apart from the Bandaranaike International Airport at Katunayake which comes under the purview of the Airport and Aviation Authority of Sri Lanka (AAASL), all other airfields in the country are owned and operated by the SLAF.
• SLAF - The major role of this [Sri Lanka Air Force] Station is the maintenance of the airfield to provide air traffic services to both military and commercial aircraft.
• Aeronautical Information Services - "VCCJ - KANKESANTURAI / Jaffna...Controlling authority: SLAF"

--obi2canibe^{talk contr} 14:16, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Then, you don't need to name it as Jaffna Airport, I am moving it to Palaly Airport.Pathmaraman (talk) 17:15, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

I don't think, move to Palay Airport is right. The owner of the Airport is Government of Sri Lanka and the Airport is used for both the military and civilian purposes, why the operator SLAF crest should be there?Pathmaraman (talk) 17:22, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

You asked for sources to show that the airport is manned/operated/controlled by the SLAF and these have been provided. Ignoring the WP:RS have removed the SLAF crest. And ignoring WP:COMMONNAME you have moved the article from Jaffna Airport and Palaly Airport. "Palaly Airport" in no way implies the airport is military. You are ignoring Wikipedia policies to get your own way.--obi2canibe^{talk contr} 17:36, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Then, better change the name as SLAF base in Jaffna.Pathmaraman (talk) 17:51, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

You, yourself stated, it is a Military Airport. Jaffna Airport is a misleading term. It should be altered as Sri Lanka AirForce Base, Jaffna.Pathmaraman (talk) 23:40, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Request for Comment

So called Jaffna Airport is an air force base and domestic airport in Palaly, Jaffna, Sri Lanka.

@Obi2canibe: believes SLAF Crest should be included in the info box.

But I believe since it goes as Jaffna Airport and is used for domestic/civilian purposes, the SLAF crest is misleading or vice versa. I mean if the crest should be included it should be renamed in the following ways;

• Jaffna Air Force Base (similar to Reese Air Force Base, Moore Air Force Base, Los Angeles Air Force Base.....)

OR

• SLAF Base Jaffna (similar to PAF Base Peshawar, PAF Base Nur Khan.....)

OR

• Jaffna Air Base (similar to Szolnok Air Base, Pápa Air Base.....)

I need your opinion.Pathmaraman (talk) 03:20, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

• I myself am a pilot, and according to my airport database subscription with Jeppesen, a very prominent publisher of aeronautical charts and such, VCCJ is listed as "Kankesanturai". I don't know where this fits in, but I believe this name on aeronautical charts may be appropriate here.   Spartan7W §   04:00, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

• I'm also a pilot. The only authoritatve source for airfields in any country is that country's Aeronautical Information Publication. Any other sources (including Jeppesen) will be derived from the AIP, which is kept up-to-date with regular amendments. However, those other sources are not guaranteed to be updated or accurate. The Sri Lanka AIP is online here and the specific entry for Jaffna is in Part 3 Aerodromes. This states, categorically, that the airfield is officially named "KANKESANTURAI / Jaffna", and says "Controlling Authority: SLAF". It also says, somewhat confusingly, "Military operations only. PPR [prior permission required] for other traffic". The AIP also says (in section AD 2 - Aerodromes, sub-section 3 CIVIL USE OF MILITARY AIR BASES) that military bases may be used by civilian transport with permission. Emeraude (talk) 10:43, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

• Readers will only be confused if they read the title only and see the crest. If they read the rest of the article they will know the facts. The naming of this article should follow Wikipedia policies i.e. WP:COMMONNAME. A quick Google search shows the following:
  • Jaffna Airport - 17,100 results;
  • Kankesanturai Airport - 10,900 results;
  • Palaly Airport - 6,440 results;
  • SLAF Palaly - 1,620 results;
  • Jaffna Air Base - 58 results;
  • SLAF Jaffna - 8 results;
  • Jaffna Air Force Base - 1 result;
  • SLAF Base Jaffna - 0 results.
• It's fairly clear that Jaffna Airport is the most common name. And numerous WP:RS showing that the airport is firmly under the control of the air force. Pathmaraman should accept the facts.--obi2canibe^{talk contr} 15:25, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Google search hits may change over the time, but the facts should remain as it is. Wikipedia can't go behind how people are searching on Google to determine its title. How rationale they are when they use the terms for search?Pathmaraman (talk) 15:41, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

If they search more on Google "Jaffna Airport", "Kankesanthurai Airport", then those titles could be redirected to a more applicable title on Wikipedia, rather than we stick on to the title which is searched by people more on Google.Pathmaraman (talk) 15:58, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Please read WP:COMMONNAME, which is an official Wikipedia policy, carefully. It clearly states that search engines, such as Google, may be used to determine the most common name.--obi2canibe^{talk contr} 19:11, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

I agree with you, no issues.Pathmaraman (talk) 18:18, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

• I think the standard protocol for combined civilian/military airfields is to name them by their civilian name and have a section further down the article with the air base name, with details about the on site airbase. Regards, Buttons0603 | talk to me | 16:43, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

That was my view also in the beginning and that was the reason I wanted SLAF Crest should be removed from the article since that goes under a civilian name irrespective of who is operating it.Pathmaraman (talk) 17:14, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

• The Wikipedia article name should remain Jaffna Airport based on the official AIP:

VCCJ AD 2.1 AERODROME LOCATION INDICATOR AND NAME:
1.	Location Name	Kankesanturai
2.	Name of Aerodrome	Jaffna

The alternate names are included in the first paragraph. A new section could be added regarding the current military use, if more information is added (see Bandaranaike International Airport for an example in Sri Lanka). If the military use section grew large enough, a separate article might be warranted (for example, there are articles for Duluth International Airport and Duluth Air National Guard Base). -- Zyxw (talk) 22:14, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

That's not quite right. Above that table the AIP gives the official name as "KANKESANTURAI / Jaffna", in the same way that the UK AIP has "Aberdeen/Dyce", "Londonderry/Eglinton", "Belfast/City", "Belfast/Aldergrove" etc. Also, you might have added section 7 of the table:

7.

Remarks

Detailed information on KANKESANTURAI / Jaffna Aerodrome may be obtained from SLAF H/Q

Emeraude (talk) 11:06, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Fine, the dispute originally started over the usage of SLAF Crest on the Info box, I am of the opinion if the name Jaffna Airport is used the SLAF Crest can't be used, What is your opinion on that?Pathmaraman (talk) 00:19, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

As you have suggested once the military use of the section gets larger, a separate article could be created under the name and style of Jaffna Air Force Base or SLAF Base Jaffna or Jaffna Air Base and the SLAF Crest could be used there. Because the Crest says in Sinhalese language on the top Sri Lanka Air Force and on the bottom Palaly.Pathmaraman (talk) 02:48, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

I personally don't see a problem with keeping the SLAF crest in the article. If you don't want it in the infobox, perhaps make it a separate thumbnail image in the yet-to-be-created section for SLAF Palaly (until such time, if ever, that there enough information for a separate article on SLAF Palaly). -- Zyxw (talk) 10:13, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

What is your rationale for keeping a Military Crest in an article with a Civilian Name - Jaffna Airport?Pathmaraman (talk) 14:06, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Jaffna Airport isn't a civilian name. It's a name. There is no policy which states that military insignia may only be used on articles "military" articles. There are several Indian airports contain the Indian Air Force roundel e.g. Agra Airport, Allahabad Airport, Bareilly Airport, Kanpur Airport etc.--obi2canibe^{talk contr} 19:23, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

I don't agree with you. @Buttons0603: has identified Jaffna Airport as a civilian name in his comment, "I think the standard protocol for combined civilian/military airfields is to name them by their civilian name and have a section further down the article with the air base name, with details about the on site airbase....". That is my view too.

I am not sure of your statement, "There is no policy which states that military insignia may only be used on articles "military" articles".

Agra Airport, Allahabad Airport, Bareilly Airport, Kanpur Airport have got Indian Air Force bases with civilian facilities, that is the reason they are using Indian Air Force roundels in smaller scale. But here you are trying to use the crest in unproportionately larger size.

When you highlight Google search to determine WP:COMMONNAME, you should have taken into consideration the factor Jaffna Airport term is mostly searched by Jaffna residents who are mostly Tamils and the crest is in Sinhalese language. Basically they will hate Wikipedia for these irregularities, but using SLAF roundels on the top like Indian Airports, I don't have any objection.Pathmaraman (talk) 18:46, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

I have never stated that this article shouldn't be called Jaffna Airport - it was you who renamed the article Palaly Airport. I am trying to defend the status quo which has existed for more than two years i.e. article called Jaffna Airport and SLAF crest in infobox. Like the Indian airports, this airport is an air force base with civilian facilities. If you want to reduce the size you can do so by putting a value in the "image-width" field in the infobox. We are not here to cater to the sensibilities of people, we are here to produce encyclopaedic articles, if they hate it so be it.--obi2canibe^{talk contr} 19:59, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

You don't need to twist the facts over my mistakes. I have pointed out in the first para, Jaffna Airport is considered by an editor as Civilian Name but you deny tha fact by saying, a name is a name. People can sense certain words whether they are Civilian or Military over the time, the way they sense it in certain languages whether they are feminine, masculine or neuter or even derogatory or not. It is because the Crest is there for more than 2 years, doesn't validate it should be there forever. I don't want to reduce a Crest which is in one language and doesn't want to validate its presence in the article, but I may have done so if a roundel is there. When we create Wikipedia articles, we should give importance to the geographical sentiments of the people since one factor of the Origins of the Sri Lankan civil war is language policy itself.Pathmaraman (talk) 00:02, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

There is no policy basis for your argument.--obi2canibe^{talk contr} 11:50, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

I have changed into roundel like Indian Airports and solved this issue, thanks.Pathmaraman (talk) 18:09, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

@Pathmaraman: Why did you bother to ask other editors for comments if you are going to ignore them and do as you please? No one else has supported removing the crest. You simply have no respect for Wikipedia or its policies.--obi2canibe^{talk contr} 19:56, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

I never thought of replacing with roundel in the very beginning since my option was removing the crest or not. After you have quoted Indian Air Ports, eventually I thought there is a better way to replace the crest. The other editors too might have never thought of that way since I haven't given the option. Now they can response if they disagree why they want the Crest instead of Roundel. Maybe I am of the opinion that I have followed the standard.Pathmaraman (talk) 01:48, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

@Pathmaraman:That's your opinion. I disagree. What are you going to do about that?--obi2canibe^{talk contr} 20:14, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Then you should explain why you defer the standard followed in the Indian Airports; and you brought for a demonstration to me.Pathmaraman (talk) 20:29, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

That's easy Pathmaraman. You were stating that the inclusion of the SLAF crest meant that Jaffna airport was a military airport only. I was showing that's it's possible to have a mixed use - military and civilian - airport with military insignia in the info box. Your arguments are getting thinner and thinner.--obi2canibe^{talk contr} 21:43, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Even Indian Airports which you have brought for demonstration have mixed use, but they haven't used Indian AirForce Crest, I couldn't understand your love for the inclusion of Crest.Pathmaraman (talk) 00:40, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Here on Wikipedia we follow WP:CONSENSUS. And as WP:STATUSQUO makes it clear that during a dispute, until a consensus is established to make a change, the status quo reigns. The Rfc was about the name and use of crest. No one else has supported your position but nevertheless you are doing as you please. I repeat, you have no respect for Wikipedia, its editors or its policies.--obi2canibe^{talk contr} 19:58, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

WP:CONSENSUS is already met in the Indian Airports that Roundel is more applicable than Crest. Please state you rationale why you want exceptionally in Jaffna Airport Crest over Roundel?Pathmaraman (talk) 01:11, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

I don't need to justify anything. You started the Rfc. I have not heard one policy based argument from you. I have not heard one answer from you. You just ask questions.--obi2canibe^{talk contr} 19:42, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

I brought the RfC, you brought the examples of Indian Airports with Roundels usage, and I changed the Crest into Roundel in the article. You should know when to quit the battle also; we have other important things in life to concentrate.Pathmaraman (talk) 00:02, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

WP:FILIBUSTER.--obi2canibe^{talk contr} 19:54, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

WP:FILIBUSTER is not applicable here. I won't respond anymore since you are evading using various Wikipedia rules and guidelines here and there for a simple common sense related correction to the article. If you want you can take this issue to WP:DRN.Pathmaraman (talk) 23:23, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

So we should follow Pathmaraman's common sense rather than Wikipedia's policies and guidelines?--obi2canibe^{talk contr} 21:15, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

As there has been no further comment I intend on re-inserting the SLAF crest.--obi2canibe^{talk contr} 19:41, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

No further comment because there is nothing to explain. You can take this issue to WP:DRN and explain there why you want to bring Indian Airports which are with "Roundel" for example to me on a demonstration and at the same time why you want the Jaffna Airport should be decorated with '"Crest".Pathmaraman (talk) 07:57, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

I have reported at ANI for an opinion.Pathmaraman (talk) 08:44, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

This is a content dispute and the applicable guidance is WP:BRD and WP:STATUSQUO. You made the bold edit (in removing the crest), I reverted and, eventually, a discussion was started (by me). Whilst the discussion was ongoing you have violated WP:BRD twice by removing the crest, including this morning. WP:STATUSQUO states that "during a dispute, until a consensus is established to make a change, the status quo reigns". The status quo is the inclusion of the crest. It is up to you take this matter to WP:DRN.

You should explain why you want selectively Crest over Roundel at the Jaffna Airport, if you don't I'll revert it back, I am sorry.Pathmaraman (talk) 11:46, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

ANI discussion is archived here.Pathmaraman (talk) 12:15, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

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