Talk:Jailhouse lawyer

Globalize

I added a globalize clean-up tag to this article because this happens in other countries too, not just in North America. Wikipedia should have a globally relevant article or one that is specific to a particular prison jurisdiction. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 23:37, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Do we have any sources to support globalization? A quick search doesn't turn up much. -- Visviva (talk) 17:37, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

@Visviva: The article lead says the term "... is a colloquial term in North American English ..." However, this claim is not cited with reference to a reputable North American dictionary or other reference work about the term and the article gives no evidence that the term is used in all of North America, as it only appears to discuss the situation in the United States. I can find the term has its origins in American English, but that doesn't mean the term is confined to or even used in all of "North America" - American English is specific to the United States, and is not necessarily also used in Canada. I have come across a news article from New Zealand would suggest the term now has a world-wide meaning in English.

Also see:

• Merriam-Webster. (n.d.). Jailhouse lawyer. In Merriam-Webster.com dictionary. Retrieved October 12, 2024, from https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/jailhouse%20lawyer
• "Jailhouse lawyer" entry in Collins English Dictionary - Penguin Random House LLC and HarperCollins Publishers Ltd

Cameron Dewe (talk) 18:43, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! I may have phrased my question poorly -- this is definitely a well-known term in US prison law, but I wouldn't think the article would be globalizable if we don't have sources with nontrivial coverage about this phenomenon (by whatever name) in some other countries, which I have been thus far unable to locate. I suppose it would be OK to have a US section and an NZ section that's just about Arthur William Taylor, although that seems a little bit of a stretch. I guess an alternative approach would be rescoping to include other forms of non-attorney advocate roles, e.g. (in US) tribal lay advocate, domestic violence lay advocates, accredited immigration representatives; (in Russia) общественный защитник ("citizen legal advocate"); etc. But I'm not immediately seeing sources that would support covering lay advocacy in all of these different contexts as a cohesive topic, which makes me think it would be hard to avoid WP:SYNTH and WP:V#Notability issues if we did that. So I guess just keeping it to current scope with US + NZ might be the way to go. -- Visviva (talk) 01:55, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

The term may very well be well-known in United States prison law, but that doesn't mean it is well-known in all of North America, which extends all the way from Greenland to Panama and includes the Caribbean and other islands to the east of the United States. The term might be well-known in the United States, but, from what you are saying, the sources don't actually support all of North America and its usage in "North American English", which is different from "American English", which is confined to the United States, more or less. However, while the term might originate in the United States, its appearance in a dictionary published in the United Kingdom suggests the term is used in English, generally. It might have a specific meaning in the United States, but under English law, from which New Zealand derives its law, people are entitled to represent themselves in court. While such people are often known as bush lawyers, the usage of jailhouse lawyer in a New Zealand news article suggests the term does have global currency, but this hasn't been recorded in the sources at present. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 11:35, 13 October 2024 (UTC)