Talk:Jake Kelly (Australian footballer)
Latest comment: 9 years ago by BDD in topic Requested move 12 May 2015
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Requested move 12 May 2015
edit- The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the proposal was not moved. As things stand, Jake Kelly is a footballer and WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, so it's absolutely appropriate for the proposed title to redirect there as {{R from incomplete disambiguation}}. --BDD (talk) 19:35, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
Jake Kelly (Australian footballer) → Jake Kelly (footballer) – Move the page back to it's original location. The disambiguation is shorter, the additional wording is not needed, WP:NATDAB, "use only as much additional detail as necessary". There is no need for a Jake Kelly (footballer) redirect to Jake Kelly. duffbeerforme (talk) 07:30, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
- Oppose move. Jake Kelly (footballer) is still ambiguous as Jake Kelly is also a footballer. You ignored the pretext of that NATDAB quote: "when a more detailed title is necessary to distinguish an article topic from another, use only as much additional detail as necessary." In this case (footballer) does not distinguish this article from the other, whereas (Australian footballer) is unambiguous. The-Pope (talk) 10:42, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
- The Irish footballer is at Jake Kelly. The title of that article is different to Jake Kelly (footballer). Adding the footballer disambiguates the titles, differentiating the two topics. It distinguishes the two by having a different title. No need to add extra. Disambiguation is not there to fully describe the subject, that's what the article is for. 00:28, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- James Kelly is a dab page and completely irrelevant to this discussion. The-Pope (talk) 10:01, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- Opps, fixed it now. duffbeerforme (talk) 11:37, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
- James Kelly is a dab page and completely irrelevant to this discussion. The-Pope (talk) 10:01, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- The Irish footballer is at Jake Kelly. The title of that article is different to Jake Kelly (footballer). Adding the footballer disambiguates the titles, differentiating the two topics. It distinguishes the two by having a different title. No need to add extra. Disambiguation is not there to fully describe the subject, that's what the article is for. 00:28, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- Oppose, someone speedy close this please, impossible proposal. Jake Kelly, (born 18 June 1990 in Dublin) is an Irish footballer . In ictu oculi (talk) 23:12, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
- Rubbish, nothing impossible about it. The Irish guy is at James Kelly and won't be effected by a move. 00:21, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- Strong oppose Jake Kelly is also a footballer. Ambiguous disambiguation is a very bad idea. This fails WP:PRECISE as there are multiple footballers by this name -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 05:10, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- A complete misrepresentation of PRECISE. By that reasoning every primary topic should be moved. duffbeerforme (talk) 11:35, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
- I never said anything about primary topics. The primary topic of Jake Kelly is Jake Kelly, so any disambiguator applicable to Jake Kelly, the primary topic should either point to the disambiguation page, or to the primary topic article, "Jake Kelly". This is not a primary topic, because it carries a disambiguator. Therefore it must follow wP:PRECISE, with sufficient disambiguatory material to uniquely identify it separate from all other topics ,w hich the suggested name does not, since the primary topic is a footballer. Therefore this topic cannot use a disambiguator applicable to the primary topic Jake Kelly -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 14:35, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
- Let's look at precise in terms of these Kellys. Jake Kelly is the primary topic. The title unambiguously defines the topical scope of the article, a person named Jake Kelly. It does not unambiguously tell us which Jake Kelly it is but it does not need to. Jake Kelly (footballer) unambiguously defines the topical scope of the article, a person named Jake Kelly. It does not unambiguously tell us which footballer Jake Kelly it is but it does not need to. Jake Kelly (footballer) is precise enough to unambiguously define the topical scope of the article, so should not be more precise than that. Jake Kelly (Australian footballer) is more precise so WP:PRECISE tells us not to use it. It's not the job of article titles to give a full description of the subject, that's the articles job. duffbeerforme (talk) 00:24, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
- You are still ignoring the "to distinguish an article topic from another" section of the WP:NATDAB guideline. (footballer) does not distinguish the Aussie from the Irishman at all. (Australian footballer) does. The-Pope (talk) 02:59, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
- Jake Kelly (footballer) has (footballer) in the title. Jake Kelly does not. That distinguishes the titles from each other. duffbeerforme (talk) 13:11, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
- Not really. Jake Kelly is also a footballer, so "Jake Kelly (footballer)" would appear to lead to Jake Kelly, but the proposal would make it lead somewhere else – it would lead to an article about a footballer named Jake Kelly who is not the primary footballer named Jake Kelly. —BarrelProof (talk) 21:14, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
- Jake Kelly (footballer) has (footballer) in the title. Jake Kelly does not. That distinguishes the titles from each other. duffbeerforme (talk) 13:11, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
- You are still ignoring the "to distinguish an article topic from another" section of the WP:NATDAB guideline. (footballer) does not distinguish the Aussie from the Irishman at all. (Australian footballer) does. The-Pope (talk) 02:59, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
- Let's look at precise in terms of these Kellys. Jake Kelly is the primary topic. The title unambiguously defines the topical scope of the article, a person named Jake Kelly. It does not unambiguously tell us which Jake Kelly it is but it does not need to. Jake Kelly (footballer) unambiguously defines the topical scope of the article, a person named Jake Kelly. It does not unambiguously tell us which footballer Jake Kelly it is but it does not need to. Jake Kelly (footballer) is precise enough to unambiguously define the topical scope of the article, so should not be more precise than that. Jake Kelly (Australian footballer) is more precise so WP:PRECISE tells us not to use it. It's not the job of article titles to give a full description of the subject, that's the articles job. duffbeerforme (talk) 00:24, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
- I never said anything about primary topics. The primary topic of Jake Kelly is Jake Kelly, so any disambiguator applicable to Jake Kelly, the primary topic should either point to the disambiguation page, or to the primary topic article, "Jake Kelly". This is not a primary topic, because it carries a disambiguator. Therefore it must follow wP:PRECISE, with sufficient disambiguatory material to uniquely identify it separate from all other topics ,w hich the suggested name does not, since the primary topic is a footballer. Therefore this topic cannot use a disambiguator applicable to the primary topic Jake Kelly -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 14:35, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
- A complete misrepresentation of PRECISE. By that reasoning every primary topic should be moved. duffbeerforme (talk) 11:35, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
- Oppose: The proposal would put the article at a title that fails to disambiguate it from the (different) primary topic. —BarrelProof (talk) 10:34, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
- Oppose. Australian rules football is not football. In addition to reasons given above. Jake Kelly belongs at Jake Kelly (footballer), this Jake Kelly belongs here, at Jake Kelly (Australian footballer), neither should be undisambiguated. Note that Jake Kelly does not belong at Jake Kelly (Irish footballer) because "Irish football" is incorrect, unlike "Australian football", better known as Aussie Rules, which is distinct. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 10:56, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.