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Talk:Jamaica College

Latest comment: 3 years ago by Mikesiva in topic Alumni
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Assessment

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Latest comment: 14 years ago6 comments3 people in discussion

Orginal

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More refs and topics required to make this a B standard. It is rated as high as this is one of the few schools with an English page in Jamaica however the alumni include two prime ministers. More formal listing would be helpful Victuallers 18:47, 31 March 2007 (UTC)Reply

Re-assessment

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Reassessed and above comment adjusted in light of recent changes. -Arb. (talk) 14:30, 21 August 2009 (UTC)Reply

I have recovered the original assessment comments above for history, please do not alter signed comments without the author's permission as it suggests they said something they didn't which is confusing. I have however moved assessment comments here to avoid clogging up the School's template. Camaron · Christopher · talk 14:23, 7 September 2009 (UTC)Reply

I am re-assessing this article following a request. I am retaining high-importance as it seems justified. The article is coming on but is still C-class, further work will be needed for B-class. Firstly, there are some issues with the images on this article which I have highlighted on the image pages. The logo in particular should probably be re-uploaded onto the English Wikipedia under a claim of fair use (this is not allowed on Wikimedia Commons). Firstly, the lead needs to be longer - it should summarise the entire article as well as introduce it, see WP:LEAD. The current lead is a little promotional and has inappropriate language e.g. it has been a breeding ground for prominent members of Jamaican society - breeding is not generally an appropriate term to refer to humans and has closer links to re-production rather than education. The history section is good but it is all dependent on one reference, more variety should exist if possible, and there isn't very much beyond 1967. Academics needs expansion as tagged. The historic buildings section is okay but it needs more variety in refs as tagged. School prayers, like school songs, can be copyrighted and if they are they should not be pasted into articles. If it is out of copyright it may be better to put it on wikisource and link to it from the article. The information on headmasters could possibly be merged into the history section and be converted into prose form. Much of the alumni section needs sourcing, this is important for WP:BLP. The external links are excessive and should be reduced per WP:EL. General government links are not relevant enough for inclusion, and social networking links are of little use to most readers. I would look to have one to three links, with no more than five. Camaron · Christopher · talk 14:23, 7 September 2009 (UTC)Reply

Re-assessment 2

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This article has been improved since I last assessed it so I might as well re-assess it to see if it meets the B-class criteria.

  • Criterion 1: The article is reasonably well referenced. It is good that citation templates are used but try and fill in as many as the parameters as possible fore each reference, see {{cite web}} for an example for all those available. Again, more of the alumni needs sourcing, but the sourcing is good enough overall for B-class.
  • Criterion 2: Most sections needed are covered, though some are tagged for expansion, this is good enough for B-class.
  • Criterion 3: The article structure is okay but not brilliant. File:Jamaica location map.svg should be in a thumbnail, and some of the section headings are done incorrectly, see WP:MOSHEAD. The lead could do with some more work; it should summarise the article more, currently it seems to focus on alumni and school objectives. Things from other section such as history should be briefly mentioned here too, see WP:LEAD. Overall however, the structure is still good enough for B-class.
  • Criterion 4: Some parts of the article could do with being wikified, and bold is used excessively, see WP:MOSBOLD, however the article does not need to follow the WP:MOS rigorously for B-class.
  • Criterion 5: I notice there are a lot of fair use images appearing in the article, such images must meet WP:NFCC. File:JC 2007 Manning Cup Victory.jpg is not replaceable so may be okay, but does it really improve the article enough to justify use of copyrighted material? File:JC NUMBER 1.jpg is a replaceable image, and further images of the logo in addition to the one at the top of the article are not needed. Some non-copyrighted images, perhaps photographs by editors, would be great, but the infobox and logo are enough for B-class.
  • Criterion 6: No issues with accessibility.

Overall, I will give this a pass for B-class. Camaron · Christopher · talk 10:02, 29 September 2009 (UTC)Reply

Re-assessment 3

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It has been requested that I re-assess the article in preparation for GA, and that I comment of specific elements. The layout of the article seems good. The Insigma section contains lots of small sub-sections, perhaps these should be combined into continuous prose. Images are not a massive deal for GA, though they should be some if possible and they must be relevant and follow copyright policies. File:JC 2007 Manning Cup Victory.jpg may be a problem in this area as although it may not be replaceable, is it really essential for the article, as needed to pass WP:NFCC? The big red border around it might also be a problem for FA, though this can be digitally removed. There are still missing references throughout the article which will need to be addressed for GA. I would divide the alumni section up by sub-headings rather than just bold and semi-colons as preferred by the WP:MOS. Every alumni listed really needs a reference. The person being blue linked is not grounds for exemption from this, and if there is referenced material in the linked article confirming this it should just be copied and pasted in; articles should meet WP:V on their own. Also, GA assessors do like it if all the references are tidy and use citation templates, there are a few references in the article that still don't. Finally, good luck with the GA nomination, this article is not far from achieving it. Camaron · Christopher · talk 17:17, 14 December 2009 (UTC)Reply

Congratulations X01

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Latest comment: 15 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Well done X01 in getting the article to B class so quickly.

If you want to take it further, perhaps you should ask some one from the Guild of Copy Editors to do their thing. -Arb. (talk)

Thank you for the encouragement. Your advice is well-received and is an indicator that I am not finished! X01 (talk) 01:19, 2 October 2009 (UTC)Reply

Academics

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Latest comment: 15 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

According to Wikipedia:WikiProject_Schools/Article_guidelines#Sections_of_the_article the preferred heading is "Curriculum". Is there some compelling reason to use the rather ungainly (and to my ear ugly) "Academics"? -Arb. (talk) 01:25, 30 September 2009 (UTC)Reply

"traditional"

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Latest comment: 15 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The lead paragraph says "...JC is a prominent, traditional, all-male secondary school...". What is the purpose of traditional here? Perhaps it has a particular meaning in Jamaican usage or it might be short hand for something. Either way it needs to be spelt out in full for the benefit of the many readers who will not understand the code. -Arb. (talk) 14:49, 4 October 2009 (UTC)Reply

Re-assessment 4

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Latest comment: 14 years ago2 comments1 person in discussion

That certainly sounds encouraging but I note that all three Re-assessments have been by the same editor. That may well be the norm (I'm not familiar with the assessment process) but perhaps it would it be worth getting a second opinion from another experienced assessor?

Personally, I find the article informative but wordy; there are places where the writing style seems more Gleanerese than encyclopaedic. It could be a lot terser and is sometimes clumsy. Eg:

  • "has had the privilege of producing many influential members of the Jamaican society"
  • "The institution serves students aged ranging from"
  • "and is complemented with 97 teaching staff."
  • "First established as a boarding school for boys, Jamaica College today has remained a single-sex school, however the boarding facilities have been removed."
  • "most notably"

And that's just from the lead. It really would benefit from the services of one of the Guild of Copy Editors.

And you still have not defined what you mean by "traditional" (traditional classroom education), just moved the word around. Could you perhaps link to an article that describes different kinds of education?

Sorry if this comes across as negative, it is not meant to be. You have made great strides with the article. It just needs a polish.

-Arb. (talk) 16:18, 16 December 2009 (UTC)Reply

Edit: It looks as though the Guild is more focused on clearing the category backlog than dealing with requests, so I've added {{Copyedit}} to the article in the hope that it might (eventually) get a reaction. -Arb. (talk) 16:30, 16 December 2009 (UTC)Reply

Re-assessment 5

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Latest comment: 12 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Well it has been a long time since I last looked at this article, and while the existing ratings still hold, there some things I can say to help this article get GA status. In general, I would recommend opening a peer review once this article is very close to achiving GA status, in order to get some feedback from other editors, as GA reviewers can be extremely picky, and every person will see different faults. Looking back through my past assessments, some of my previous comments still apply. There are still clearly issues with the images; the logo in the infobox is fine, but the use of non-free content elsewhere is problematic. I do not think File:JC 2007 Manning Cup Victory.jpg and File:JC 2009 Walker Cup Victory.jpg pass the non-free content criteria, and will probably have to go. Although they are nice images, unless they are key to understanding the sports section, the use of non-free content cannot be justified. There seem to be some copyright issues with File:Jamaica College School Prayer.jpg. In general, the text of prayers, songs e.t.c. should be posted on Wikisource and linked to from the relevant section using {{Wikisource}}. Such content can be copyrighted however, so unless the copyright has expired (normally does so in the lifetime of the author plus seventy years), it can't be posted anywhere. I would assume that this prayer would be public domain by now. I would suggest getting more free pictures for the article, like File:Sims Building, Jamaica College.jpg (though possibly when it is less foggy), and then add it to the article - with extra material linked to on Wikimedia Commons using {{Commons}} as appropriate. While I'm talking about templates, I think I should mention that it is permissible to link to dictionary definitions at Wikitionary directly, which will probably be more helpful to readers than placing a template in the external links section.

On the article layout, try and use WP:WPSCH/AG#S as the main guide. In general, the article is well laid out though bold should not normally be used for sub-section headers; use === Sub-headers=== instead. Some sections still seem to be quite undeveloped e.g. Can more be said about basketball than one sentence? The history section is long, though the section is dominated by a small selection of references - are there others? The alumni section is impressive but it is still hampered by large gaps in the referencing; every person on this list needs a reference.

On the references themselves, some clean-up appears to be needed. References twelve and thirteen are broken and many other references have dead links, with the former needing fixing and the latter replacing. It is possible to use the Internet Archive if the dead links cannot be replaced by live links - see the {{Cite web}} documentation. A few references still don't use templates at all; use of reference templates is not required for GA but it is still a good idea.

I hope that feedback is sufficient for the moment. Feel free to request re-assessment again at WP:WPSCH/A if some more quick feedback is desired. CT Cooper · talk 15:34, 28 January 2012 (UTC)Reply

Alumni

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Latest comment: 3 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

It is over am month since the Alumni section of the page was tagged, but no additional articles have been written, or references added. I have, therefore started by removing those alumni with no articles or references whatsoever

In case anyone wishes to write articles about the removed names, these were:-

Business and finance
Engineering
  • Phillip Gore, O.D., Real estate developer, chairman of the Jamaica Promotions Corporation, JAMPRO (since 2011).
Journalism
Life sciences and medicine
Military and emergency services
Politics and law
  • Justice Hugh D. Carberry, former Judge of the Court of Appeal.
  • Hugh Small, former Parliamentarian
  • Dr. Peter Phillips, former national security minister of Jamaica.
Sporting
  • Donald Stewart, Jamaica national football player.
  • James "Jimmy" Carnegie, renowned sports writer and commentator, historian, author, and educator.
  • John Mair, former Jamaican Olympian, Seoul 1988.
  • Martin Woodstock, former Jamaica national football player.

The next step is to consider whether the names without articles, but with references, meet WP:NOTEBLP- Arjayay (talk) 17:45, 25 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

I agree that a lot of those names probably don't need to be included. But there are some names who were leaders of Jamaican post-independence society deserve to be in the list, whether they have Wikipedia articles or not. I will put those names in, with references to Jamaican newspapers.Mikesiva (talk) 21:27, 10 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

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Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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