Talk:James C. Collins

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This page describes unremarkable people. One of the references used is the wife of the person described. It also suggests merchandising, since there is a link to the commercionl site of the person described. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kuikentje (talk • contribs) 06:21, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Some Proposed Changes

I would like to suggest a couple of changes to the biography of James C. Collins. These changes will fix two inaccuracies;

1. he is not James C. Collins III (there is no III in his name) and
2. his occupation is writer, not consultant.

To fix the inaccuracies, I’d like to suggest replacing the first sentence and the occupation box, as follows:

Current first sentence: James C. “Jim” Collins III (born 1958) is an American business consultant, author, and lecturer on the subject of company sustainability and growth. Suggested replacement: James C. “Jim” Collins (born 1958) is an author on the subject of what makes great companies tick in business and the social sectors.

Current Gray box: Management Consultant and Writer Suggested replacement: Writer

These changes are supported by the following two links. The first is The Economist article, “Built to last” dated November 26, 2011. https://www.economist.com/node/21540219. About Jim Collins, paragraph 5 states, “He rejected careers in both academia and consulting in order to focus exclusively on the question of what makes great companies tick.”

The second link in support of this change comes from the Financial Times article, “A new expedition into management’s familiar territory” dated October 5, 2011. https://www.ft.com/content/e72c5b74-e9e6-11e0-a149-00144feab49a. Paragraph 3 states, “Jim Collins, one of the most successful management writers…”

Thank you for your consideration. Amy with Office of Jim Collins (talk) 19:59, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

Actions taken

 Partly done Amy with Office of Jim Collins, I've implemented all these changes as the sources support them (or in the case of "III" we have no source supporting it) except for adding "an author on the subject of what makes great companies tick" since the language is too WP:FLOWERY, even if it is reliably sourced. Chetsford (talk) 21:05, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

He is a consultant ...

Jim Collins is a consultant, he describes himself as such on his website.

Specifically, as of accessing it today,

https://www.jimcollins.com/services.html

"SERVICES SPEAKING ENGAGEMENTS For Good to Great® or Great by Choice™ speaking engagements, please write to ReachTheTeam@jimcollins.com.

OTHER SERVICES For Good to Great® or Great by Choice™ business consulting and management services, and Good to Great® or Great by Choice™ seminars and workshops, including the Good to Great® or Great by Choice™ Dialogues seminar, please write to ReachTheTeam@jimcollins.com."

Also, from his about page:

https://www.jimcollins.com/about.html

"Jim Collins is a student and teacher of what makes great companies tick, and a Socratic advisor to leaders in the business and social sectors."

"Socratic advisor" is another way of saying "consultant."

He is also a writer, but there is nothing wrong with calling him a speaker, consultant, seminar-leader, researcher or probably a dozen other descriptions of components of what he does.

I changed it to "is an American researcher, author, speaker and consultant" who is "focused on the subject of business management and company sustainability and growth"

Lauchlanmack (talk) 03:26, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

Calling him a "lecturer" is a bit clunky.

He's not an academic teacher, according to his website he calls himself a "speaker," not a "lecturer."

I changed it from lecturer to speaker.

Lauchlanmack (talk) 03:26, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

Amy "with the Office of Jim Collins" should be more aware of the reality of who Jim Collins is and what he does

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Amy_with_Office_of_Jim_Collins

She claims to be associated with his business:

"Hello, this is an account that I have set up to suggest changes and possibly make small, uncontroversial edits to articles related to James C. Collins to correct factual errors. I'm aware that there are guidelines about editing pages if there is a potential conflict of interest, so I would like to disclose here that these contributions are made on behalf of James C. Collins and in consultation with him, and I intend to follow all of Wikipedia's guidelines, including those on WP:COI, WP:RS, WP:V and WP:NPOV, very closely. My aim is to work with and seek advice from impartial editors to make positive contributions to James C. Collins's article, hopefully leading to a much improved article. On any pages where I look for assistance, I will be sure to disclose my relationship to James C. Collins in the interests of transparency. If you would like to help me, please let me know. Thanks."

But clearly she is not aware of what work Collins actually does.

I'd suggest disregard this as a likely fake user profile that likely has nothing to do with Collins himself or his business.

Lauchlanmack (talk) 03:49, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

The "Work" section ...

The work section contains a very high level view, mentioning a couple of his books, and then a very specific element of one component of one book:

"Level 5 leader Collins often discusses a "Level 5 leader" in his writings. This refers to the peak of a five-tier hierarchy of leadership characteristics presented in the books. A Level 5 Leader is someone who embodies a “paradoxical mix of personal humility and professional will[10].”"

The reference was .”

If we want to discuss his ideas in detail, then mention everything else as well - BHAGs, Hedgehog Concept, probably around 15-20 key concepts. Otherwise leave them all out. There is no logic to just randomly including one of them.

In the meanwhile I'll delete it for consistency. If you want to put it back, I copied the text above.

Lauchlanmack (talk) 03:36, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

References

"Test Pilot?"

I removed this section:

"

Test Pilot

Collins re-published an autobiography called Test Pilot (Doubleday, Doran & Co., 1935), written by his grandfather Jimmy Collins, after whom Collins is named. Jimmy Collins was the chief test pilot for the Grumman military aircraft company during the 1930s, and Clark Gable portrayed him in the movie version of his book. Jimmy Collins died in a crash while testing the F3 biplane, having predicted and described his death before it happened. "

Is it really relevant that he republished his grandfather's autobiography?

I would have thought there would be more pertinent things from his body to work to highlight ...

Lauchlanmack (talk) 08:04, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

References

Lack of detail ...

The article says:

"Collins received a BS in Mathematical Sciences at Stanford University, and afterward obtained his MBA from Stanford Graduate School of Business followed by 18 months as a consultant with McKinsey & Company. He then worked as a product manager for Hewlett-Packard[5].

Collins began his research and teaching career on the faculty at Stanford University's Graduate School of Business,"

Great. But:

• What year did he graduate in his BS at Stanford?
• What years did he start and finish his MBA at Stanford?
• Which months was he at McKinsey? (I gather he started in 1981, but which month?)
• Which years / months was he at HP?
• When did he join Stanford's faculty? (some articles and Built To Last say 1988, others 1989)

These additional details would be pertinent and helpful.

They don't seem to be readily available though - I just goggled for them.

Lauchlanmack (talk) 07:34, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

FWIW:

https://www.forbes.com/2003/05/05/0505bookfeature.html#46c4d35d5991 "Collins graduated from Stanford in 1980 with a degree in applied math and spent 18 months in McKinsey & Co.'s San Francisco office, where he stumbled on the project that two partners at the time, Tom Peters and Robert Waterman, later turned into In Search of Excellence. He returned to Stanford and earned an M.B.A. in 1983. Then came an 18-month stint as a product manager at Hewlett-Packard. He quit and vowed never to work for a company again. Next he spent a few years signing up product endorsements for his triathlon champion wife, Joanne Ernst, and in 1988 he took a $32,000-a-year job teaching entrepreneurship at the B-school."

I'll update the article.

Lauchlanmack (talk) 07:55, 5 April 2020 (UTC)