Talk:James Clerk Maxwell/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Taking issue with historical and technical accuracy

The article says, "In 1881 Oliver Heaviside replaced Maxwell's electromagnetic potential field by 'force fields' as the centrepiece of electromagnetic theory." Comment: Heaviside removed two potentials: Magnetic Vector Potential (aka Vector Potential) A, and the Electric Scalar Potential, often given the symbol V in EE. The four main equations as they have stood for about 130 years are due to Heaviside, not Maxwell. Maxwell had presented a hodge-podge of twenty equations in both quaternion and Cartesian forms, emphasizing the vector potential. Turns out that until antenna design came along (see below comment) (also with the addition of EM into quantum theory, which is another story), the potentials, being non-physical were not that useful. As a result Maxwell's equations remained in hiatus until Heaviside happened on the scene, which was after Maxwell had died of stomach cancer. Heaviside made a practical decision to make the electric and magnetic field intensities (E and H) central. Using the so-called constitutional equations, we can replace either E or H, or both, with the flux densities, D or B, as appropriate. Hertz had been working on a similar simplification of Maxwell's equations, and agreed with Heaviside regarding the removal of the potentials. EM took off quickly after these events, including Hertz's success in the generation, transmission and reception of EM waves.

The article says, "Heaviside reduced the complexity of Maxwell's theory down to four differential equations, known now collectively as Maxwell's Laws or Maxwell's equations." Comment: Due to Heaviside's contribution, I would prefer to see the four equations we all know and love, referred to as "the Maxwell equations", i.e., Maxwell-signular; not Maxwell's, because they are not his any longer. Indeed, until Einstein, the Maxwell Equations were known as the Maxwell-Heaviside-Hertz equations. Einstein, who was only interested in the inherent relativistic properties of the equations, and not their importance in the practical application of electricity, referred to them as Maxwell's..... His one small comment has influenced generations of physics and engineering authors... an egregious example of authority worship if ever there was one!

The article says, "According to Heaviside, the electromagnetic potential field was arbitrary and needed to be 'murdered'.[94]" Comment: Please refer to the following comment.

The article says, "The use of scalar and vector potentials is now standard in the solution of Maxwell's equations.[95]" Comment: I have not been able to see reference 95, but am not at all convinced by this sentence. The potentials are not a universally applicable abstraction. The major use of the potentials in EE, where they are a standard tool, is antenna analysis and design (retarded potentials, polar response, etc... a knowledge of moving charge density and current density throughout space enables the determination of V and A, from which we can obtain B = curl A, and E = -grad V - (partial A / partial t), etc.), but only as a means to an end, simplifying the analysis. The end result is still given in terms of the field intensities, because these are easily measurable to verify antenna performance. The vector potential is an abstract quantity, related to EM momentum, the curl of which is B (or H). The potentials were not "murdered" by Heaviside; they were just relegated to an appendix, as optional extras, which well indicates how little use they were in Heaviside's context of telegraphy and coaxial lines, loading coils, telegrapher's equation, etc. However, the fact that after 130 years we still publish four Maxwell equations, and not six, or twenty! If this were not indicative (in the big scheme of things) of the relatively minor role of the potentials, compared to the field intensities H (A/m) or E (V/m), the "force fields".

But really, a lot of this belongs in the Maxwell Equations section, and not in an article about James Clerk Maxwell, for the very reason that most of it happened after he died. Probably all that is needed is to point out that the equations shown in virtually all textbooks are due to Heaviside, not Maxwell, replacing Maxwell's hodge-podge of twenty (redundant, unfocused, and notationally-deficient, but otherwise correct) equations with just four. That's when the technology age really began, and the rest, as they say, is history!

James Clerk Maxwell and Oliver Heaviside were both geniuses of the first order. Heaviside has often been referred to as the second Maxwell.

Sources: Panofsky and Phillips- Classical Electricity and Magnetism., 2nd ed. Hayt - Engineering Electromagnetics. Nahin "Maxwell's grand unification" IEEE Spectrum Mar 1992, p. 45 Nahin "Oliver Heaviside: Genius and Curmudgeon" IEEE Spectrum Jul 1983, pp. 63-69.

ajr75.148.94.222 (talk) 03:59, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Name and surname

Can someone explain where is the given name, surname and where?--V.lukyanyuk (talk) 18:13, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Read the first paragraph of the "early life" section. —BarrelProof (talk) 18:36, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Alma mater

Could we include the constituent college of Cambridge (Trinity College) where Maxwell obtained his degree in the 'alma mater' infobox parameter? The 'infobox scientist' documentation does not preclude the inclusion of constituent colleges. Their inclusion is common practice wikiwide. Also note that the college in question is renowned for a long and distinguished tradition in mathematics and the sciences, thus it merits inclusion in the infobox due to its notability. --Omnipaedista (talk)

As JCM was associated initially with Peterhouse, and then Trinity during his Cambridge undergraduate years, then retaining the inclusive "University of Cambridge" is a more appropriate entry against 'Alma mater'. In later life, JCM's role in Cambridge was as the founding director of the Cavendish Laboratory, so "University of Cambridge" is also the more appropriate entry against 'Institutions' (noting that you have been attempting to change this entry also). FF-UK (talk) 20:34, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. The question is how much information we want to include in the small margin of the infobox. The minimalist approach would have it the way it is now. But if we wanted to be thorough we could include the following text in the 'alma mater' parameter "Peterhouse College, Cambridge (no degree); Trinity College, Cambridge (BA, 1854)," and the following text in the 'institutions' parameter "Trinity College, Cambridge; Cavendish Laboratory, Cambridge". Note that since "Maxwell was made a fellow of Trinity on 10 October 1855, sooner than was the norm, and was asked to prepare lectures on hydrostatics and optics and to set examination papers", he can be safely included in the list of Trinity faculty. We should let consensus decide the style of presentation. --Omnipaedista (talk) 21:07, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

The infobox is a brief overview, the detail goes in the main article text. FF-UK (talk) 21:34, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

I don't mean to butt in, but an IP editor reverted User:FF-UK's edits due to "3RR". I've reverted the page back to the most current revision by FF-UK, just so you know. Boomer Vial^Holla 12:36, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

The IP didn't say "3RR". They said "edit warring". Those are different things. —BarrelProof (talk) 18:22, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Known for

Should the list include Maxwell relations? —UuliPaukkunen (talk) 08:39, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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Semi-protected edit request on 9 December 2016

I have found more information on james clerk maxwell from bbc and would like to be able to add it please and thank you Alone vortex (talk) 01:42, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

@Alone vortex: Well, what do you think needs changes, and what sources support the change? We can't make any requested edits if you don't specifically request them. —C.Fred (talk) 01:46, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

Edit proposal

I'd propose to add the following information on his work on the kinetic theory of gases (under Scientific legacy / Kinetic theory and thermodynamics, 2nd paragraph, after the second sentence):

Maxwell was also the first to give a mechanical argument that molecular collisions entail a tendency towards equalization of temperatures, a precursor to Boltzmann's H-theorem. 5.206.188.134 (talk) 06:34, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

References

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These references have now been replaced with better sources. FF-UK (talk) 16:37, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

British vs American English

This line "Maxwell was also interested in applying his theory of color perception, namely in colour photography" is mixing both spellings of the word colour. Should standardize.18.189.125.140 (talk) 16:08, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Corrected this and several other occurrences. FF-UK (talk) 21:44, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

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based on at least two valid references his birthday is 13 November.Kanimanga (talk) 07:58, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Not sure why you are adding that comment here, but it is complete nonsense! See https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/learning/hall-of-fame/hall-of-fame-a-z/maxwell-james-clerk FF-UK (talk) 11:40, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Founder of electrical engineering ?

Practice with electrical arts (including amber) goes way back. Fleeming Jenkin and Lord Kelvin are other candidates for early engineering in the area. Credit should go the British Association for establishing electrical standards in 1873. Jenkins and Maxwell collaborated in that effort, but Maxwell is remembered for his field theory (The Maxwellians) which ultimately led to modern devices. Engineering was not Maxwell’s forte. Electrical engineering as a commercial art with products progressively developed in the field was led by Thomas Edison. — Rgdboer (talk) 02:46, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 April 2018

I'd be grateful to see the inclusion of JCM's visit to RObert Davidson's egyptian exhibition in 1841 - Davidson staged an exhibition of electrical machinery at Aberdeen, Scotland in 1840, Edinburgh, one year later—where it was visited by the young James Clerk Maxwell and later at the Egyptian Hall in Piccadilly in London, where he hoped to attract sponsorship for his work.[3] Amongst the machines shown were electrically operated lathes and printing presses. Robert Davidson made the first car in 1839

Dr Antony Andersons new book Robert Davidson, Pioneer of Electric Locomotion references this visit.

I can supply further information as required - I am great great grandson of RObert Davidson. Davidsonrs (talk) 10:56, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: as you have not requested a specific change in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
More importantly, you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article.
In addition to the author and title, references to books require, publisher, date ISBN + page No- Arjayay (talk) 12:03, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

The article Robert Davidson (inventor) has several references. Perhaps the 1841 visit by JCM can be documented. Inclusion can then be made with a proper reference. — Rgdboer (talk) 23:00, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

The following article by Anderson is informative and available via Google Books:

• Anthony F. Anderson (11 June 1981) Forces of Inspiration, The New Scientist, pages 712,3 via Google Books

The mentioned book: Pioneer of Electric Locomotion has not be located. — Rgdboer (talk) 23:31, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

Anderson has been cited and R. Davidson linked in § Education, 1837— Rgdboer (talk) 21:57, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

semi-protected edit request

Hello, right now footnote number 74 reads "Maxwell, J.C. (1868),'On governors', from the proceedings of the Royal Society, No. 100" but no link is included to the actual text of the paper, on governors. I therefore propose that the following link be added to the footnote https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspl.1867.0055. By clicking the "view PDF" button on this page, one can view the full text of Maxwell's paper. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.185.96.57 (talk) 19:26, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• James Clerk Maxwell - Thermodynamic Maxwell surface - sketch 8 July 1875.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 08:52, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Pronunciation of "Clerk"

It would be useful to tell readers how to pronounce the "Clerk" part of Maxwell's name, because it is non-obvious. It is pronounced "Clark" (see https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/pronunciation/english/james-clerk-maxwell). This issue was raised long ago (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:James_Clerk_Maxwell/Archive_1#Pronunciation)--all the contributers to the items agreed--but it is still missing. I'd be most grateful if an editor knowledgeable with the International Phonetic Alphabet (I'm not) could rectify this longstanding deficiency.Robert P. O'Shea (talk) 16:40, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

It's /klɑːrk/ but I don't really think that's needed given that the word clerk and the surname Clerk is always pronounced that way in the UK. It's non-obvious perhaps to some US-English speakers. MichaelMaggs (talk) 17:56, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 September 2020

Infobox biographical suggestion: I have noticed that Maxwell's religion belief is missing alongside other biographical fields; although he did belong to more than a Christian group, he was undoubtedly a Christian, therefore this data should be displayed as well. Cornelius Benedictus (talk) 20:56, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

 Not done. See Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/Archive 126#RfC: Religion in biographical infoboxes –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 00:28, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 February 2021

111.92.45.171 (talk) 16:57, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

he is a british scientist not scottish

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. J850NK (talk) 18:20, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• James Clerk Maxwell - Thermodynamic Maxwell surface - sketch 8 July 1875.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:19, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 June 2021

He is described in the bio as a mathematician, is listed in the SCATTISH (BAB's pronunciation) mathematician category, so i think the lead should state he was a mathematician and mathematical physicist. 198.53.108.48 (talk) 02:18, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Basically  done as of this edit by editor Wikipedian1337. Thank you very much for your input! P.I. Ellsworth  ed. ^put'r there 20:54, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 October 2021

The caption in the following picture (Maxwell with his wife) is incorrect

James Clerk Maxwell and his wife, by Jemima Blackburn.

Maxwell's wife was "Katherine Clerk Maxwell" not Jemima Blackburn so please change "Jemima Blackburn" to "Katherine Clerk Maxwell" RISHABHSTEIN (talk) 13:52, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: The word by let's you know who painted it. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:58, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

Science and Mathematics

Is mathematics not a science? One might say that Maxwell was a mathematician by training and a physicist by profession. According to "The New Encyclopaedia Britannica" 15 th edition (1986) Maxwell was a "Scottish physicist best known for his formulation of electromagnetic theory." I suggest replacing "scientist" by "physicist".Nayano2 (talk) 09:35, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

Surname consistency

There is information in this article that suggests that the last name of both John Clerk Maxwell and his son James Clerk Maxwell was "Clerk Maxwell". Whenever James Clerk Maxwell is referred to by his last name only in the article on his wife, the last name used is "Clerk Maxwell". Yet whenever this article refers to James Clerk Maxwell by last name only, it calls him "Maxwell". (Does Wikipedia still have a rule that says that if Wikipedia says "A is B" one place and says "A is not B" in another place then no objection can be made because it would constitute using Wikipedia as a source for Wikipedia? I'm not saying which surname is correct, only that they can't BOTH be correct, so, somewhere, something is wrong.)2600:8804:8800:11F:1C64:8308:33BC:E2D6 (talk) 23:09, 21 November 2021 (UTC)Christopher L. Simpson

Maxwell

Sadly, no mention of his silver hammer? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C6:2E0A:B101:244D:3422:F291:EC79 (talk) 17:33, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Wrong Maxwell. You need the Maxwell Edison article. SpinningSpark 17:40, 16 January 2022 (UTC)