Talk:James P. Hagerstrom

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Informal review

In response to a request on my talk page, I'd like to offer the following suggestions for options to prepare the article for FAC:

• "scoring 8.5 victories over Chinese, Soviet, and North Korean MiG-15s" - it's best to avoid the use of terms such as 'score' in regards to warfare, given that it is not a game and Hagerstrom was killing people. I'd suggest something like "destroying 8.5 Chinese, Soviet and North Korean MiG-15s"
• "he took on an advisory role" - this suggests that he was sent to Vietnam of his own volition and picked his job. The article later notes he was posted there, and served in important command and coordination roles, not advisory positions.
• The first para of the "Training and mobilization" section implies that Hagerstrom was part of a group of pilots who went through all stages of initial training together. Is this correct? My understanding is that pilots were posted individually between institutions rather than as a group (which was the case even for the mass production of pilots under the British Empire Air Training Scheme).
• "A corvette from the Royal Australian Navy flanked the ship" - 'flanked' is unclear, and implies that the corvette was sailing next to the transport. The corvette would have escorted the transport.
• Can the dates for Hagerstrom's travel from the US to Australia be given?
  • Unfortunately, the source gives few dates, and I have included as many as I can. I also have been unable to find a RS with the dates for the convoy. /~huesatlum/ 14:57, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
• "Hagerstrom joined the rest of the 8th FS at Kila Airfield, New Guinea" - when was this?
  • This date is also missing from the source. /~huesatlum/ 14:57, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
• "he flew several missions in the P-40 during the New Guinea campaign, all without seeing combat." - the para and rest of the section then goes on to describe Hagerstrom frequently fighting Japanese aircraft over New Guinea.
  • Clarified to indicate he had seen no combat up to this point. /~huesatlum/ 14:57, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
• "In early fall 1943" - avoid using seasons instead of months (this also seems to be incorrect as you're writing about the second half of 1943, which is spring and then summer in the southern hemisphere). This is particularly the case when referring to the tropics, which do not have fall/autumn or winter.
• "The 8th FS switched to escorting B-25 Mitchell and A-20 Havoc planes on ground attacks" - the grammar is a bit unclear here
• "the unit was often low on fuel and other supplies because they were at the end of a supply chain" - I think you mean "long supply chain" or similar here, as by definition all combat units are at the end of a supply chain.
• "and went to Australia to recover for three weeks" - this implies that he had some choice over where he went. He almost certainly would have been "sent" or "evacuated" to Australia.
• "the four victories making him an ace" - as "ace" status usually refers to pilots who have destroyed five or more aircraft, I'd suggest tweaking this to note that it was in combination with his previous kill
• It would be helpful to explain the strategic situation during Hagerstrom's time in New Guinea - he arrived as the Allies went onto the offensive, and achieved his greatest success at the time when the Japanese air units in New Guinea were collapsing (it's quite possible that all four pilots he shot down in January 1944 had been hastily trained, rapidly sent to New Guinea and were flying badly maintained aircraft)
• "Hagerstrom depersonalized the fact that there were humans in the planes he shot down" - I don't think the grammar is right here (especially "depersonalized the fact")
• "Taiwanese Air Force" - the force was, and remains commonly known as, the Republic of China Air Force.
• " He then went to Hawaii to work with U.S. allies in the FEAF—which had been renamed the Pacific Air Forces—at their new headquarters at Hickam Air Force Base." - this is a bit confusing as it implies that there was a grouping of US and allied air forces at this time with its HQ at Hawaii. As far as I'm aware, no such force existed (I don't think that SEATO had a unified command structure). Clarifying what Hagerstrom's role was would help.
  • I clarified this sentence and added more about his role later in the paragraph. /~huesatlum/ 14:57, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
• I'd suggest noting the status of the war in Vietnam when Hagerstrom arrived - e.g., he was there at the start of the American build-up.
• "to conduct air interdiction operations against the Viet Cong (VC) on the Ho Chi Minh trail" - I can get confused about the terminology, but I think that the VC were the forces raised in South Vietnam. The North Vietnamese Army used the Ho Chi Minh Trail, including to transport supplies to the VC.
• "The Royal Lao Armed Forces were suffering low morale and faced pressure from the VC" - as above, please check that these actually were VC forces. I suspect that they were North Vietnamese Army troops, which operated extensively in Laos.
  • I changed the part about the Ho Chi Minh Trail to the NVA, but the source specifically mentions that the second part is about the VC, so I kept that. /~huesatlum/ 14:57, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
• "The ambush was successful" - what the ambush was isn't previously described.
• "frustrated from years of conflict" - the article says he was in South Vietnam and Thailand for about a year and a half, not "years".
  • Clarified to indicate this was over the course of his career. /~huesatlum/ 14:57, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
• As a general comment, the article is a bit imprecise at times around dates. It would be best to be as specific as possible.
  • As I mentioned above, the sources are also unfortunately imprecise, but I have tried to add dates wherever possible. /~huesatlum/ 14:57, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
• All photos are PD
• All sources look to be RS

Other than the above, the article is in great shape, and should be able to be developed to FA status without a great deal of extra work. Nick-D (talk) 23:25, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

@Nick-D: Thank you again for the thorough review, and apologies for taking so long to get through these. I have addressed all your comments (everything that doesn't have a specific reply I fixed/clarified/added). These are my changes, although some are unrelated to your review. /~huesatlum/ 14:57, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

I've read through the changes to the World War II section (the section I'm closest to being qualified to comment on) and some of the other sections, and they look good. I have a few comments though:

• " the squadron was moved to Tsili Tsili Airfield, recently captured from the Japanese and still frequently bombed by them" - I don't think that this airfield was captured from the Japanese - its site was secured by Allied troops and constructed in secrecy. It wasn't bombed until it was almost complete, and most of the raids were ineffective.
• " To connect to the river, he was forced to fly over the Japanese-held town of Lae" - this describes an action on 5 October, but Lae was liberated by Australian forces on 16 September (see Landing at Lae)
• "President Lyndon B. Johnson and other commanders " - this is a bit inaccurate given that LBJ was the commander in chief, not one of several commanders
• "The ambush took place" - it's still not clear what the ambush was
• "frustrated from years of conflict with the bureaucracy of political and military command over his career." - this is a bit complex for what it covers - could the sentence be simplified?
• Watch out for wordy constructions like "did enjoy" (which I've replaced with "enjoyed) Nick-D (talk) 09:09, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
  • @Nick-D: Noted. Thanks for the reply – I've addressed your new comments with these edits. Let me know if I misunderstood anything. /~huesatlum/ 17:27, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
  • @Nick-D: Apologies for the long delay – I haven't had much time to devote to WP but I'll have some free time now. Would you mind taking another look at this article and assess how close it is to FAC-ready? /~huesatlum/ 17:16, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
    • @HueSatLum: Sorry for being inexcusably slow here. If my comments above are addressed, as I imagine they are, this should be good to go. From having spot read a few sections, the article is looking very good. Nick-D (talk) 10:54, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
      • No worries, and thank you again for your help. I will nominate soon. ~huesatlum/ 16:51, 20 May 2020 (UTC)