Talk:James Scully (GC)

Importance

Is everybody ever who got a medal important enough for wikipedia? The British Government was by far not as lavish as Nazi Germany which handed out 2.6 million iron crosses. But several tousand of them should be around so give this man more than the medal! The person did something imortant and saved lifes, but is he still alive? or what was the rest of his life like? --Stone (talk) 17:39, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

There is an established notability criteria that says recipients of the top level bravery/gallantry medal are automatically counted as being notable. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Style guide#Notability. The GC along with the VC meets this criteria for the UK. When comparing with Germany, bear in mind that the Iron Cross comes, in several grades, only the top level of which confers automatic notability. In the same way, for the UK system there are many, many medals and honours which wouldn't automatically merit an article for a recipient. There are in fact fewer than 160 individual recipients of this medal. David Underdown (talk) 18:10, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I concur with David. Certainly, every recipient of every medal is not notable. But the criteria for notability for biographies include the criterion that "A person is generally notable if they meet any of the following standards.......*The person has received significant recognized awards or honors." The George Cross, as David points out, is the highest civilian decoration for valour awarded by the UK and Commonwealth countries. In my opinion, all 160 recipients are automatically notable regardless of the rest of their career. I would say that all Victoria Cross and George Cross recipients are notable, but not recipients of the more numerous lesser awards (unless they are notable for other reasons.) Kim Dent-Brown ^{(Talk to me)} 19:59, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

OK! The numbers I have found for GC medals are low, but still this biography lacks the rest of the life!--Stone (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 08:35, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, the rest of the biography lacks detail and if I can find it I'll put it in. But it's possible that he only did one noteworthy thing in his life and then lived an unremarkable existence: the mundane nature of the rest of his life doesn't detract from the moment of notability which, once conferred, is not lost thereafter. Kim Dent-Brown ^{(Talk to me)} 08:46, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

The GC is good, but honoring him with a little more detail with his life would suite him!--Stone (talk) 09:17, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

There would almost certainly have been press coverage of the award at the time, and possibly obits when he died which would help flesh things out. at the moment though, even those researching the GC don't give a huge amount of info on his later life (seee the GC database reference) so it's pretty hard to know where to start looking - did he stay in the UK after the war, or return to Ireland. The Republic of Ireland was neutral during World War II, and given hsitorical events, hasn't tending to make much of Irish citizens who went off to fight for the UK. David Underdown (talk) 10:03, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Lt Chittenden

I found three further mentions of a Charles Cummins Chittenden in the London Gazette:

• 23 September 1914 - 2nd Lieutenant, 5th (Cinque Ports) Battalion, Royal Susses Regiment
• 20 December 1940 - Lieutenant, Royal Pioneer Corps (163280)
• 11 December 1969 - Major, GM, died

I also found an entry in WikiTree. Taking that source (WP:UGC, not WP:RS) at face value, I am sure that all four relate to the same person. The death date in WikiTree is the same as in the London Gazette, and his two surviving sons in the former source have the same names as his executors in the latter. It was not uncommon for an eldely soldier who had served in WWI to serve in a non-combatant unit in WWii (see e.g. Francis George Miles).

He's nowhere near passing WP:GNG. He was born in 1889. The 1939 England and Wales Register gives his occupation as farming heavy worker. On that night in Birkenhead, he was 51. Narky Blert (talk) 12:44, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

References

Scully's rank

It is certain he was Acting Corporal when his GC was gazetted. It is less clear when he achieved that rank. I raised the question of whether he could have done so within two months of signing up (which is when his GC action took place) wich a friend who had reached the rank of Corporal in the Royal Army Ordnance Corps. We agreed it was perfectly possible in a newly-formed unit in wartime (256 Company is a high number indeed, and Lt Chittenden had only joined the RPC in December 1940).

One source (Ashcroft) gives his final rank as Sergeant. This looks very plausible, but some factual errors in that source make me reluctant to rely on it for this detail. Narky Blert (talk) 12:44, 29 July 2024 (UTC)