Talk:Janapar

Disambiguation

There is now a finished 2011 documentary film with the title 'Janapar' on IMDB. Suggest creating a disambiguation page for the hiking trail and the film. Djpeanut (talk) 12:09, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Edit warring

Hello. pls, first of all discuss on Talk Page. The name of this city in all official editions is Shusha. As regards to Shusha's "Armenian name", it's acceptable maybe in Armenian editions. here is English Wikipedia. --Aydin mirza (talk) 22:00, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Many cities have another transcription in different languages. it doesn't mean that we schould use it in encyclopedic editions. All reliable sources say "Shusha", not "Shushi". In Azerbaijan editions nobody use "Irevan" and etc. So, pls, don't drive us to edit warring. --Aydin mirza (talk) 22:27, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Trail checkpoints names

The article is about now non-nonfunctional Armenian tour trail which used those Armenian names at the time when it was in use. Applying Azerbaijani names now, anachronistically, is not a constructive step, Toghrul R. --Armatura (talk) 11:24, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

@Armatura: hello. I don't get it. For instance, Tigranakert of Artsakh uses the convention I've followed — it doesn't name the city as Akna, right (per WP:COMMONNAME)? Also, you've removed my tags, please have them back — Toghrul R (t) 16:21, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

@Toghrul: Not sure how else to explain apart from the already provided explanation, really. If at the time of described time period the road was called Londinium Road, it should not be renamed now London Road. Janapar tour trail never used those Azeri names you now want to apply to it. --Armatura (talk) 20:17, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Unwarranted removals?

@Achemish, Hi I didnot quite understand your comment Undid a number of unwarranted removals. How removal of unsourced information is unwarranted?

1. TIn 2018 Trails For Change NGO repainted the blazing on the entire trail. - is unsourced. Source attached to it is just a link to some unknown trail project organization. What it is if not advertisement?
2. The trail creators advise hikers to use the Viewranger app or a GPS with the downloaded tracks, or the topographic maps made available on the Janapar website - unsourced since January 2022.
3. The symbol of the trail is a footprint with the silhouette of Nagorno-Karabakh, which is composed of a single wandering line, which represents a hiking trail - unsourced since January 2022. I found a source and placed Provided markers are blue with a yellow footprint according to the source. Yet, you reinstated that unsourced information back.
4. You also for some reason removed Azerbaijani name of Karmir Shuka (Girmizi Bazar) from the photo description - This information is relevant, and the fact that territory is located inside the sovereign territories of Azerbaijan is giving weight enough to mention as per MOS:ALTNAME.
5. the astonishing Zontik Waterfall - whole article used to add one word, which adds no value, which is POV of the author, which is not encyclopedic, and absolutely irrelevant. I can't understand why it is restored.

And so on, and so on... can you please explain, how removal of the unsourced information lowering the quality of the article? A b r v a g l ^(PingMe) 15:58, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

A lot of the information you removed was specifically not unsourced, and you removed several actual sources while doing so. If you had an issue with the language for some being too much like an advertisement, that is a different matter and you can modify as you see fit.

1. I missed that the link for the blazing did not specifically lead to that information. However it took me less than half a minute to find the correct information on the website so I can fix the link - https://www.trailsforchangengo.org/janapar-trail. I could be mistaken but I believe wikipedia's recommended policy is to make an effort to verify or fix sources before simply removing them for being unsourced.

2. Regarding the GPS app, the source for this is in the janapar trail website, which is provided already in the page, but an explicit source can be added for that content that leads to the specific page of that website. http://www.janapartrail.org/wiki/Bari_Janapar. The Viewranger portion has been removed so that can be removed from the article - I did leave the viewranger links removed following your edits since those links were now dead.

3. Based on the image it is pretty reasonable to conclude that the symbol is indeed of the outline of the NKAO, and even if the source is not immediately apparent, it is worth verifying that the included sources on the page don't already include it/making an effort to find one. That is what the [citation needed] tag exists for - content that is not obviously uncited/untrue, which should have a source found for it rather than immediately removing it. Indeed I very quickly found a source for it but it is a weak site - https://www.traildino.com/trace/continents-Asia/countries-Nagorno-Karabakh/regions-Lesser_Caucasus/trails-Janapar_Trail, I imagine some more effort (probably on the trail website itself) the proper source exists. The blue/yellow footprint is not contradictory with the information about the outline.

4. I removed it to be consistent with WP:NPOV. I'm fine with adding the name back in but then the Armenian-language name for Shusha, Shushi, as well as for Azykh, Azokh, should be added as well to maintain balance.

5. I agree that is a a single problematic word and removing it is a good move. I reverted your changes there not because of that but because you removed other good detail from the paragraph as a whole (about the tree, ruins of Hunot, etc), and removed a perfectly fine source from the NYTimes which I did not understand.

Removal of good sources and material which was indeed not-unsourced is why I said the quality was lowered.

Achemish (talk) 07:59, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

I removed unsourced information, and you did indeed restored unsourced information. You should have provided sources as per Wikipedia:BURDEN. Now, as you state that you have all of the sources. Can you please provide unsourced parts with citation? A b r v a g l ^(PingMe) 07:27, 28 October 2022 (UTC)