Talk:Janet Nelson

Death of Dame Nelson

Dame Nelson's death has been reported widely, including by the Royal Historical Society https://x.com/RoyalHistSoc/status/1846211004708819164 Charleslincolnshire (talk) 15:48, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Many thanks for adding that very brief Tweet from the Royal Historical Society as a source. When you say "reported widely", I wonder which sources you had in mind, as I have been unable to find any. That's why I reverted the addition made by Percy Gryce about three hours ago. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:39, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

The Royal Historical Society have now published an official announcement, so I have added this as a source. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:26, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Marital status

The source, which is her biographical entry in Who's Who, says "diss." not "div."? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:59, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

I agree. If Who's who is a RS, then we should go with the source says, and IP's changing it to 'div.' should be reverted per BRDP. SerialNumber54129 15:13, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Marriages can be "dissolved", but those fools who rush in can't. Not lawfully, anyway. Therefore and unless I'm missing something (which I can), the infobox note about her former spouse should go with what I think "div." normally means. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:31, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

I can see no advice about divorce at Template:Infobox person, let alone at Template:Infobox academic. So not sure. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:37, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

You just need to look up the verb "dissolve", I think, to be sure. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:42, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

We have an article Dissolution (law), which I assume covers to marriage in the UK, but it's not very conclusive. In England and Wales the Divorce, Dissolution and Separation Act 2020 (no fault divorce) came into effect only on 6 April 2022. Before then, I think a period of two years' separation was required before a marriage could be dissolved without any attribution of fault. But I think the resulting marital status is the same i.e. "divorced". But I am not an expert in these things. Of course, even Who's Who can make mistakes. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:53, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

(Until the second edit conflict) I think you're missing my point. Whether a marriage (or any ostensibly binding agreement) is dissolved, annulled or terminated, the undersigned parties aren't. That's who this infobox is talking about, not what (the divorced Howard Nelson, who remained undissolved). InedibleHulk (talk) 21:06, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes ok, so the marriage ended because of divorce not because someone died or separated. So we could change the text to: "They had one son and one daughter before they divorced in 2010", even though the source doesn't actually say that. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:11, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

The body is fine, it's the infobox who's "gnarly". InedibleHulk (talk) 21:13, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Ok. Just the info box then. I still think the infobox templates could usefully clarify all this. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:15, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

While you were deliberating, I was acting. Bit "bold", perhaps. Take it or leave it. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:18, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

I was replying to someone at my Talk page... Martinevans123 (talk) 21:23, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Not at this 21:15, 16 October 2024 you weren't. You were still thinking. Thinking about "coulda"... InedibleHulk (talk) 21:47, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Ah, I see. Thanks for correcting me so thoroughly. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:49, 16 October 2024 (UTC) (and if you could just let me know my six numbers for this Saturday's draw, I'd be much obliged)

Interview with Nelson

Here. It's a primary source, but the site's RS. SerialNumber54129 16:06, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes, it's included in "External links", thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:52, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Family

Her bio at Amazon says this: "I married Howard Nelson in 1965 (marriage dissolved 2010), and we had two children, Lizzie (1972) and Billy (1974). Since the births of my five grandchildren, Eli (2000), Ruth (2002), Martha (2006), Dorie (2008), and John Paul (2018), I have involved myself in each and all of their lives." So maybe some detail is warranted. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:07, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Are you suggesting we enumerate/name their grandchildren, footnote this beside Who's Who to vouch for their children's names or something else entirely? InedibleHulk (talk) 10:37, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

I'm suggesting, given the importance of her family to Nelson, that it might be appropriate to retain the children's first names and to say that she had five grandchildren. Using a footnote might be acceptable. But also note that she herself calls the marriage "dissolved"? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:50, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. Until the last sentence, anyway. When two people are "divorced", their marriage is "dissolved"; it's not an either/or thing, just depends on the subject in question. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:08, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Indeed, I'm not advocating "...a son named Billy and a daughter named Lizzie before dissolving in 2010". Agree it's not necessarily either/or. Just reiterating that her children say "divorced", while Who's Who and Nelson herself say "dissolved". Problem is, we don't know why. Is that standard style in Who's Who? Or just the biographer's choice. Happy to leave as is for now. Hardly a huge issue. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:18, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Not compared to ISBNs, apparently. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:26, 19 October 2024 (UTC)