Talk:Japanese Chin

Contradiction

"Portuguese sailors introduced the breed to Europe in the 1600s by presenting some to Catherine of Braganza, Queen Consort to King Charles II of England.

An American naval officer, Commodore Perry, helped make this dog famous in England in 1853 when he presented a breeding pair to Queen Victoria after returning from Japan. This was the first canine gift given to the royal family. He is also credited with this breed's appearance in America when he later gave a pair to the President of the United States."

How can it be the first when the same breed of dog was giving to the Queen Consort of England 200s years prior?! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Arthurian Legend (talk • contribs) 15:48, 31 March 2007 (UTC).

Fair use rationale for Image:JChin.jpg

Image:JChin.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 18:09, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

hi I'm not a friend

this article on japanese chin is really helpful; especially with this project!thank you so much! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.202.79.186 (talk) 13:27, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Copy-vio

Info from the Japanese Chin Club was copied without a proper reference with this edit. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 20:58, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

Original Content

I was going to work on improving this article until I started doing some research and found that the content of this article seems to be almost completely copy/pasted verbatim from the text found here which predates the edit records of this article. [1] Seeing the Copy-vio note above only further leads me to believe this article contains nothing but copied content. — Preceding unsigned comment added by David Condrey (talk • contribs)

YEs. True, and we were discussing this at Phil's page. User talk:Sagaciousphil/Archive 15#Japanese ChinHafspajen (talk) 23:26, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

There might be other copyvio issues, but that site you linked to copied from wikipedia, not the other way round.--Dodo bird (talk) 23:55, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Japanese Chin (add from Phil's page)

[2] This is indeed copyright issue, se history Japanese Chin. Need instant rewording. Hafspajen (talk) 19:09, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

Yes, you are definitely right, Hafs, it is a cut/paste from the breed club; I see Jonathan Joshua has tagged it. I will look at it in more depth tomorrow as we probably need to check other info added to the article as well. Why on earth does it have images of flags in the info box? I've been out all day today so haven't had much chance for anything. I added the 'fix' from Begoon to get rid of the new typography on Sunday (which did help) so haven't seen anything about it being reversed - where was it stated? SagaciousPhil - Chat 21:40, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

This was the edit, adding all this. [3]Hafspajen (talk) 22:48, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

I'll look at the Japanese Chin article later. SagaciousPhil - Chat 05:13, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Is this covering that citation in the article? http://www.buksie.dk/the_african_dog.htm ludwig Hafspajen (talk) 12:11, 8 April 2014 (UTC) Or is it this one? http://mongolenmeute.de/geschichten/ Hafspajen (talk) 12:20, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

The first one can't be used as it's a breeder's personal website. I will have a look at the second one in a little while when I'm back on my computer (iPad at the moment!) as I'll have to run it through google translate. SagaciousPhil - Chat 12:24, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Has to be this one!! Misspelled as Ludvic. http://www.tibbies.net/learn/which-came-first/ Hafspajen (talk) 12:54, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

I'm inclined to leave that article alone for at least a few days to see if there is any response from editors who have worked on it previously, especially as the worst of the copy/paste has been removed. They may complain about some of the links etc I've removed as well but I think they are all justified. Let's play it by ear for a short while. Yes, it will probably need a thorough re-write to get it sorted. SagaciousPhil - Chat 13:46, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

There is this single pourpose account editor (diff above) who is the one who did all that copypaste. You might end up with a new copypaste... Hafspajen (talk) 13:50, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

That's why I think we should leave it for a few days - the editor does still seem to be around and I want to gauge the re-action when they see that it's been flagged/removed. SagaciousPhil - Chat 13:57, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

I am going to tell you what you will got = s/he will paste it back. What will you do then? Hafspajen (talk) 14:00, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Welcomed and warned Proximo128, and hope for the best.... .... Hafspajen (talk) 14:13, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Hafs. Do you want me to fix the book ref on the article or do you want to have a go at doing it? SagaciousPhil - Chat 15:16, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Yes, show me how you will fix that. Hafspajen (talk) 15:59, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

That's it done - all I did was follow the steps I've just highlighted in the section just above here. SagaciousPhil - Chat 16:19, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

• Here this message is moved ftom my talk page TO ADD TO THIS DISCUSSION:

Hi, I am the webmaster for the JCCA -- the Japanese Chin Club of America (you may email me at the address provided at the bottom of http://www.japanesechinclub.org for verification) which is the parent club for the Japanese Chin at the AKC. The information (history) provided was placed up with authorization of the (at the time current) board of directors for the JCCA (Sari is our historian and member and provided the history for club use). I guess I need to learn how to properly quote reference this material in whole (I'm not a book author, but a simple webmaster and JCCA member). If you can provide details or help quote it for me, that would be appreciated.

As for the images, I'm working to knock down the amount of "personal" images posted to this site in an effort to only show a) the differences in Chin and b) the representations of a Chin. The including of a "gallery" will open a Pandora's box that should not offer an open door for any owner to think they can just post any picture and have Wiki host it. --Proximo128 (talk) 16:48, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Proximo128 left this on my page. Unfortunatelly I can't use my computer to chech this, our mails are not for private purpose, and I still don't want to use mail on Wiki. I am not sure what the usual procedure in this case and still I can't see ant references used the Japanese Chin Club of Americato research their text.Hafspajen (talk) 11:11, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

@Proximo128: - Thanks for responding to the concerns raised about the Japanese Chin article. I see Hafspajen has posted some links to policies and guidelines on your talk page - there are a lot of them! I'm not as well versed as I should be in the finer points of copyright but WP:DCM gives detail about donating copyright. I'm fairly certain the copyright [for the piece on the breed history] is actually retained by the author not the breed club though? I also see there is "© Japanese Chin Club of America Inc." included on the breed club's web pages so that may preclude being able to donate copyright text. I also think it might be best for you to read this about editing with a conflict of interest due to your position as web master for the American breed club.

The Japanese Chin article is not in great shape at the moment so does need a lot of work done on it; I see the UK breed club also has a section on breed history on it's website, so information from there could also be used. The Wikipedia article should be a gathering together of all the relevant information, written in a neutral manner in the editor/s own words and backed up by reliable sources.

As to images, it feels like a constant battle at times to keep on top of people's desire to have pics of their own dogs within breed articles - as you rightly state, images should only be used to illustrate specific aspects of the breed or when relevant. We do try to ensure this is adhered to as much as possible. I hope all this doesn't come across as harsh as I don't mean it to be and I will try to help as much as possible; if you're not sure about something, please feel free to ask - I won't guarantee I'll know the answer but I might be able to point you to someone who does! SagaciousPhil - Chat 11:10, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Images will be added whith or without gallery. I am not sure what the usual procedure in this case and still I can't see ant references used the Japanese Chin Club of America to research their text. The origin of the Japanese Chin is clouded in the mysticism of Far Eastern ancient rites.[citation needed] ... well never heard of it. Can you find any references? Otherwise we can't add it, I really don't know of any ancient rites where Japanese Chins were used. Hafspajen (talk) 11:11, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

@Sagaciousphil: (I hope I'm doing this right, I have no clue about this "talk" thing and it feels odd.) Sari is our club's historian and the piece was written for the club's use. I've recently been informed though that the piece is now going to be part of our Japanese Chin Illustrated so the piece is now officially unavailable for use. I'll work with my wife to rewrite it and provide references, but this may take time. The bit about the Chin being given to the President though we know as false (pending cite). There were a number of Chin brought back and given as gifts, but quite a number were lost on the voyages. For the items related to citations, my wife will provide those when she can take the time to write this. I can also, in the interim, contact Sari to see if she can provide citations and/or provide an updated history specifically for the Wiki (albeit I think she has even less time available than my wife as she's also an active show judge). Proximo128 (talk) 17:03, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for replying, Proximo128 - don't worry about the formatting, you've done just fine; I have to say I often struggle to work out correct indenting levels for talk pages, despite reading the guidelines at least a dozen times! If you can pull something together for the Japanese Chin history it would be very welcome, especially as you probably have ready access to books and reliable sources to reference a lot of it with. The more refs that are included the less likelihood of other editors changing things. Some information about the President appears to have been included when the article was created in 2004 with amendments made to that wording mid 2008 (all unreferenced); I can see that the AKC and the UK Chin Club don't mention the US President but both do cite Queen Victoria as being gifted two (although the UK Club does indicate there is no record of what happened to them). I was going to attempt a 'quick fix' but feel it would be better tackled by someone with more knowledge and readily available information as I might end up making matters worse. I would suggest that the information needs to be collated from the history pages of the JCCA, the UK breed club and the AKC (plus any other reliable sources that may be available). If I can help with anything, please ask as I will try to help. SagaciousPhil - Chat 09:57, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

I think that if this can be added to the Wikiquotes somehow and then it than it can be used. It is a way to avoid issues with copyright. Remember the genealogy Gareth was working with? I think that it is possible to ask an admin to add this and give evidence by e-mail that the author is fine with it - donating his-her work to Wikipedia. (PS: Still want to know about the [origin of the Japanese Chin is clouded in the mysticism of Far Eastern ancient rites] references... )Hafspajen (talk) 12:28, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

@Hafspajen:: The item "origin of the Japanese Chin is clouded ...." is a thorn in my side. The only evidence I know about is the origin of the breed comes from potentially two places: China and Japan. From what we (my wife and I) can best discover, it's China, but I'll see if I can verify that from Sari and or expand on that item -- it's possible it's just her wording.

@Sagaciousphil:: I work quite closely with a number of the board in the UK KC but I believe that Sari and my wife have better ties with the historians with the club there. For Queen Alexandra, that is absolutely correct. My wife is one of the non-authority authority figures on her -- she collects everything about Alexandra and the breed. I probably know more about the Queen than I care to ever know, but I love how much she loves collecting that stuff. I get to read newspaper articles from the era on her trips around the world with her Japanese Chin and the hilarious advertisements about products sold then over there.

• Ahem...MY problem is not the "origin of the Japanese Chin is clouded". Yes it may be clouded, alright. My problem is using the Japanese Chins in ancien rites. Don't know of any ancient rites where dogs figurated. (:Proximo128, was it meant ancient times perhaps?=misstake?)Hafspajen (talk) 22:59, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Contested deletion

This page should not be speedy deleted as an unambiguous copyright infringement, because... the copyvio has been removed. No need to delete the whole article! Yes, there was a copyvio issue, but it is enough to remove those parts and leave the rest of article... I did it already. (Also see talk page article, above the discussion, ) --Hafspajen (talk) 23:58, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

David Condrey Hafspajen This is not a copyright violation. The August 30, 2012 version of this article is very similar to the Prezi version. Prezi version has a date of September 14, 2012. This is a case of the Prezi version being a copyright violation as it doesn't give credit to Wikipedia. Hopefully I've got that right. This type of scenario has tripped me up too. It usually happens to me when the current state of the article is in copyright violation, but only because a semi-recent edit has added the copyright material. I forget to check that article has a longer history and one can revert back to a good state. Bgwhite (talk) 00:14, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Well, it seems a bit drastic to delete it all. Hafspajen (talk) 00:23, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Currently editing the article

Hi, I'm currently editing this article and I saw the previous discussion regarding the Ludwig/Ludwic section. Has anyone been able to find a source for this information in order to validate it?

Also, I saw the discussion about personal pictures and only using images if they show the differences in Chin or the representation of Chin. Three out of the four pictures in the gallery seem to be personal photographs that do neither of the things listed above, thus I will be deleting them and trying to find more appropriate ones. If you have any photographs to suggest, please let me know. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alialialice (talk • contribs) 21:53, 5 November 2014 (UTC) Images are there to illustrate breed. Hafspajen (talk) 15:12, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Don't you crunch my squishy!

I have a Japanese chin, and he is very chewable and squishy. Don't crunch him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 23.241.238.85 (talk) 22:45, 11 November 2015 (UTC)