Talk:Jeff Bezos/Archive 2
This is an archive of past discussions about Jeff Bezos. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Life extensionist?
@Deku-shrub: You recently added "Category:Life extensionists" to this article. I removed the category because I don't find anything in the article about Bezos having an interest or activity in this field, but you restored it. You also added this category to the articles about Paul Allen and Bill Maris. This does seem appropriate for Bill Maris, based on his article, but I find nothing in the Paul Allen article showing interest or activity in this area. Could you please explain your reason for including Bezos and Allen in this category? We would have to add sourced information to the articles to support its inclusion. --MelanieN (talk) 17:57, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
- Oops, I didn't notice your edit summary when you restored it. Categories don't require citations, but they DO require something in the article to show why we are putting the subject in that category. I'll take a look at your link http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/31/google-co-founders-and-silicon-valley-billionaires-try-to-live-forever and see what we can add. --MelanieN (talk) 17:59, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
- OK, I added something. And I'll take a look at the Allen article. Sorry to bother you. --MelanieN (talk) 18:13, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
- Oops, I couldn't find anything about Allen. If you are talking about the Allen Institute for Cell Science, I find it is described as studying cells to fight disease; I don't find anything about life extension. Same for the Instititute for Brain Science. Do you have a link or something to tie him to the Life Extension area? --MelanieN (talk) 18:28, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
- Paul Allen. I accept he's an edge-case however http://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2015/10/billionaire-philanthropists-funding-anti-aging-research/page-01 Deku-shrub (talk) 14:54, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
- Thanks for responding. That probably isn't a strong enough link; it appears to be the life-extension people, putting their own interpretation on his activities to conclude that his institutes are indirectly related to their subject. "Allen donated $100 million to establish the Allen Institute for Cell Science, which models the complex mechanisms of living cells. Predictive models of the cell could accelerate the development of treatments for age-related diseases, and, conceivably, for aging itself. Allen is not the only billionaire whose donations might—at least indirectly—affect life span. But such philanthropists are extremely rare." (my emphasis) If you don't mind I am going to remove the category from the Paul Allen article. --MelanieN (talk) 15:12, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
- Paul Allen. I accept he's an edge-case however http://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2015/10/billionaire-philanthropists-funding-anti-aging-research/page-01 Deku-shrub (talk) 14:54, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
- Oops, I couldn't find anything about Allen. If you are talking about the Allen Institute for Cell Science, I find it is described as studying cells to fight disease; I don't find anything about life extension. Same for the Instititute for Brain Science. Do you have a link or something to tie him to the Life Extension area? --MelanieN (talk) 18:28, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
- OK, I added something. And I'll take a look at the Allen article. Sorry to bother you. --MelanieN (talk) 18:13, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
Childhood ranch
Is anyone able to find reliable third-party sources to know whether he grew up on the NRHP-listed Cotulla Ranch or another ranch please?Zigzig20s (talk) 22:58, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
Approved Amazon to meet with Dictator?
There's a story out that Amazon will be meeting with Dictator Prayuth Chan-Ocha of Thailand in November.Whether he directly approved it or not, he is responsible for the meeting occurring as he is still CEO of Amazon. If this goes through, it should be noted in Jeff Bezos profile that he is willing to put human rights aside to talk business with dictators. [1]NaturalEquality (talk) 22:35, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 30 October 2017
This edit request to Jeff Bezos has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
jeff bezos is the world's richest man, with net worth of 90.3 billion dollars surpassing Bill gates(89.3 billion dollars). 157.50.14.151 (talk) 04:26, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
- Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Nihlus 05:05, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
External links modified
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Wealth subsection with data and chart
I created the subsection from the 'Recognition' section and added figures and a chart. I did this because, being the richest person on Earth, I felt it warranted. The figures were taken from previous versions of this article. All figures were sourced in those versions using mainly Forbes, so likely accurate. I hope this is seen as good new content which visitors will be happy to see. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:24, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 15 December 2017
This edit request to Jeff Bezos has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Typo: Under section - recognition, subsection - wealth, the first line reads "...Bezos' weath has increased..." Change "weath" to "wealth" 2601:601:1900:C8D0:CC40:7373:5C2E:3DDD (talk) 16:46, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
- Done shivam (t) 17:52, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
Typo in Section Politics
moment --> Movement (I can't edit) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.21.34.156 (talk) 15:34, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
wealth update
is there a way of linking that wealth figure with a real time chart ? the wealth figure needs an update again, it stands at $103 billion as of january 5th 2018. source: https://www.forbes.com/profile/jeff-bezos/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:908:B44:D60:8D02:95AD:A60B:10BB (talk) 21:40, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
- Not a bad idea. Just updated wealth. ThaiTee (talk) 03:04, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
Seriously, not a mention of his religious beliefs or lack of them?
Please add some detail about what his religious values are or why he has no religion. It's amazing this page avoids that completely. These pages are not tailored to personal wishes. They should be objective providing the same information/topics for all persons. 1.10.192.102 (talk) 22:48, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
- We include information on our biographical subjects that is widely reported in published, reliable sources. Do you have such sources in mind for Bezos' religious values or affiliation? And can you explain why you think it is a defining characteristic of Bezos relevant to the reasons for his notability? We are not constructing a catalog of religious and/or irreligious people here; to mention someone's religious views, they must a) be well sourced and b) have some relevance to the reasons for the existence of the biographical article. Contrary to your assertion, it is not appropriate to mention the subject's religion or religious views in every biographical article here, and we do not attempt to do so. General Ization Talk 22:56, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
- That is simply not true. Almost every article about a person who is notable contains a "blurb" about their religion. Especially Jewish persons. Almost every article about famous people I can think of contains words on their religious beliefs. This is an extreme exception. When responding to other's complaints, please stick to the facts and the truth. To say "we do not attempt to do so" is wrong, and untrue. It is easily proven otherwise. 98.194.39.86 (talk) 19:24, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
- And yet you have not been able to prove so. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 19:49, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
- "Especially Jewish persons." why is this important? also not every notable person has a religion section or information, since that info is not always publicly available with reputable sources. if you find good sources with info on that please add it to the personal life bit. do it yourself or don't complain about it! wikipedians are not servants to make wiki fit anyone elses view, we are just supposed to add facts and take away non-facts. 82.9.94.243 (talk) 10:22, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
- And yet you have not been able to prove so. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 19:49, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
- That is simply not true. Almost every article about a person who is notable contains a "blurb" about their religion. Especially Jewish persons. Almost every article about famous people I can think of contains words on their religious beliefs. This is an extreme exception. When responding to other's complaints, please stick to the facts and the truth. To say "we do not attempt to do so" is wrong, and untrue. It is easily proven otherwise. 98.194.39.86 (talk) 19:24, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
Recent gains subsection
Removed in this edit as unsourced. Are you also thinking original research? Trivia? Perhaps.
If, at another article, sources said "Mary started with 10 acres, and, using her farming profits, ended up with 20...", we could then paraphrase to "Mary originally had 10 acres. She eventually doubled that with her farming profits...", yes? That would not be unsourced nor original research.
Normally, I might call such Bezos content trivia. However, the amounts are so non-trivial. If we have sources that show his wealth was x and now is y, can we write about it somehow? We do have sources ([1][2]) for the figures.
These are extraordinary recent gains, unprecedented in the world. They seem notable and worthy as content.
Thoughts?
Ping MelanieN.
Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:42, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
- Anna Frodesiak (talk · contribs), I do just want to point out that you mentioned in this revision to remove if deemed too trivial. I think the phrasing, combined with the lack of a citation, not the facts, is what is causing the issue. I would agree that this is unprecedented, and notable, but in its most recent format (including its own subsection) it does read like unnecessary trivia. Just my 2 cents... - Mformatt(So it goes.) 07:31, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
- I have to agree, Mformatt. Do you have any suggestion of what may make it work? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 08:11, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
- To be honest, I'm not sure how to avoid any WP:NOR issues. Even with current listed sources, it approaches WP:SYNTH, so I'm tempted to leave it out without a source specifically mentioning this. I wasn't ready to delete it myself while still published, but I also can't argue too strongly for its inclusion. - Mformatt(So it goes.) 18:17, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
- Fair enough, Mformatt. All things considered, I think MelanieN had good cause to remove the content. Thank you kindly for the thoughtful input. Best, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 19:11, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
- Yes it's OR but more fundamentally, it is trivia. It's not as if tens of billions of enterprise value can be instantaneously converted to greenbacks for a shopping spree. These extrapolations from the current share price are really kind of silly. SPECIFICO talk 19:47, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
Image
I found a picture of Bezos in 2016 (a year more recent than the current one which is 2015) that is permissible for upload. Should I update or is the current one okay? ThaiTee (talk) 18:00, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
Arpanet / Internet methodology was specified by Paul Baran at RAND Corp. in 1962. Bezos article says 1970.
By 1966 Arapanet was functional at dial up speeds within defense community. Please see references on RAND.ORG
2601:1C0:CB00:4A0:6804:DC0F:57B3:DE12 (talk) 15:50, 22 February 2018 (UTC) Andy Clark
<ref>https://www.rand.org/about/history/baran-list.html<ref> (formal papers from time period.) <ref>https://www.rand.org/about/history/baran.html<ref>
Semi-protected edit request on 27 February 2018
This edit request to Jeff Bezos has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
It is stated that Jeff Bezos is a philanthropist, this is plainly not the case. Please revise this. 216.169.239.29 (talk) 23:02, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
- This is listed in the lede as one of several labels, and is supported with a section in the body. Maybe I'm missing something in this request. Kuru (talk) 23:06, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
Increase/Decrease Symbols for Net Worths are Bad: An Essay
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
What LivinRealGüd is referring to in the following passage speaks to and symbols in the infoboxes of people, not in their articles or those of a company. |
A net worth is "the value of all assets, minus the total of all liabilities”. Take for example Warren Buffett. His net worth changes when the value of his assets change. The value changes when the market re-values them. This happens 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Its constant. Even when the stock market is not open, his net worth changes. Because of this his net worth is constantly increasing and decreasing. One second its $80.2 billion, another its $80.91 billion. In an hour it might be $79.0 billion. Over the course of a year it might change by a matter of tens of billions of dollars. We can’t add the or symbol because we have nothing to compare it to. When did it decrease? By how much? From which value? It can not be done on a interval scale because there is no interval. Time is a constant. Value is always decreasing and increasing.
But why do companies have the shiny green symbols in their infobox? Because they’re companies. The and symbols are usually tacked on to static intervals that don’t change. Year after year, the fiscal year is more or less the same. Their assets ether rise or decrease in that span of time. Their operating income, revenue, or assets under management change from one point to another and so on. You can track it. These parameters change annually, sometimes, biannually, either on a fiscal or tax level. Take for example Warren Buffet’s company, Berkshire Hathaway. Its infobox looks something like this:
- Revenue: $200 billion (2017) … Revenue: $300 billion (2018)
- Operating income: $20 billion (2017) … Operating income: $10 billion (2018)
- Net income: $40 billion (2017) … Net income: $44 billion (2018)
But hold on one second. Why do the net worths of people like Buffet, Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos, and Carlos Slim on The World's Billionaires list, have the symbols. Because they are measured on an statistic interval. Their net worths are measured every year on March 23. Thats an interval. We have no such measure for live human being’s net worth. We can’t even put the symbols in the infobox when their dead because of inflation.
Lets do a cross comparative analysis of discussions undertaken on Bill Gates talk page archives. One of the most prolific discussions occurred on 15 May 2006. Users debated whether or not the symbols were good. After Bill Gate’s net worth decreased by a couple of billion a user added this symbol to create: US$50 billion. Do you see the problem? It looks like Bill Gates is in debt $50 billion dollars. Thats a problem. Its ambiguity is probably why it is not included in Template:Infobox person and included on Template:Infobox company.
Lets take a look at a usage comparison on the decrease and increase templates:
- For : "either increase, gain, or profit" (for the symbol in use). Its usage in infoboxs is mostly on of cities, companies, and governments.
- For : "should be used to indicate company losses". Its usage in infoboxs is mostly on those of states' economy, political parties, and companies.
In short, you can have it in the article, perhaps this, but its not good in the infobox. Does it look good? Yeah. Green and red are vibrant colors that really catch your eye. However, its ability to be act as eye candy is not what Wikipedia is about. It adds nothing to the article and is not an improvement. These symbols are added ad nauseam by both unexperienced and experienced editors who just want to see a green symbol in the infobox. Its not present in the articles of Donald Trump, Warren Buffett, and Bill Gates for a reason. Policies are enforced much more uniformly on those articles. Furthermore, just because a template does not explicitly rule something out, doesn't mean its okay to use. Having increase and decrease symbols is misleading and not helpful in conveying critical information. Let me detail another example to illustrate my point. I love Beyoncé. On Wikimedia Commons, there are lot of photos of Beyonce. There are a lot of photos that I think look good. But all of the photos I think look good aren't necessarily good for her infobox picture. I could say, "well gee, I love this photo of her because its 'eye candy'. Many people think so too." There are no rules that say I can't put this photo of her in her infobox, but I still don't. Why? Because it does nothing to improve the quality of her article. Many people have tried to put many photos of Beyoncé in her infobox. They are reverted time and time again–just like the and symbols are–all in the hopes of improving the article. As for Jeff Bezos and other über wealthy subjects on Wikipedia the following links will be of help to guide your contributions to their infoboxes:
In conclusion, I hope the following has explained the anti- and anti- camp well. In summation, these symbols are bad in the infobox because: 1) there is no time interval 2) because of reason 1, it is too difficult to pin its value as increasing or decreasing 3) its not mentioned on Infobox person, 4) according to the data most of the pages that use the symbols are not articles about people, 5) the symbols are misleading e.g. = debt? ∴ ≃ positive net worth? 6) the templates themselves (although weakly) warrant a concrete scale 7) most wealthy high profilers don't have it in their inboxes 9) the arguments for them are weak 10) Beyoncé and 11) there is plenty of good alternatives (e.g. detailing increase/decrease in a table in the article or writing a paragraph of a net worth's movement under an appropriate header). LivinRealGüd (talk) 23:15, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
- I appreciate the reasoned essay, and while iconographic symbols are in common usage as an indicator of movement, I don't see how you get past point #1 to debate the rest. Without a defined and constant interval, the delta is pointless. I assume all of these were here in when Forbes only did the annual ranking. Now, as people update them randomly according to whatever is in the real-time estimate, they just seem decorative. Kuru (talk) 01:00, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
- Exactly. LivinRealGüd (talk) 01:43, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
- This might just be the most detailed and most comprehensive response I have ever been given in a dispute (and such a minor one at that). Your reasoning is valid and excluding the mark does seem logical to me now, so thanks for this. Consider publishing the essay in Wikispace as a link-to policy . Lordtobi (✉) 07:03, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
GA Review
GA toolbox |
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Reviewing |
- This review is transcluded from Talk:Jeff Bezos/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Balon Greyjoy (talk · contribs) 00:07, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
Looking forward to reviewing this article. @LivinRealGüd: feel free to address my comments as I'm working through the review, as I don't expect you to wait until my review is done. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 00:07, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
- Is it well written?
- A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:
- Lead
- "went to work" change to "worked" Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "and expanded to a wide variety of products and services" change to "has expanded" and remove "wide" Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "most recently video and audio streaming" change "most recently" to "including" Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "Bezos diversified his business interests when he founded aerospace company Blue Origin in 2000" "diversified his business interests" is editorializing; recommend removing that from the sentence Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "Blue Origin started test flights to space in 2015 and plans for commercial suborbital human spaceflight beginning in 2018" change 'started' and 'plans' to keep the same tense; my recommendation is "has planned to begin commercial suborbital human spaceflight in 2018" Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "Bezos also has a number of other business investments that are managed through Bezos Expeditions." should become more concise, along the lines of "Bezos managers other business investments through Bezos Expeditions" Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- Consider removing the specific date update for Bezos's net worth, ending the paragraph at Bezos becoming the a centi-billionaire Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "and is contended to be on track to become the wealthiest person in contemporary history" the sources you have for this clause contradict each other, as one suggests Bezos is the richest man in history and the other argues that he has much less money than Rockefeller, Carnegie, or Ford Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- Lead
- A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:
- Yeah, this one was a complicated edit. I have removed it because I do agree with your previous suggestion (one line above). Perhaps later we can get an editor consensus or I can re-word it so it makes a bit more sense. Right now it seems that most people don't know what to do with his net worth's value in history. LivinRealGüd (talk) 22:27, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
- My take on this is that, especially because it's the lead section, significance should be placed on him becoming a centi-billionaire and the world's richest person. But since his wealth fluctuates so much with changes in Amazon stock prices, the day-to-day wealth isn't as important, and it's difficult to compare his wealth to historical individuals.
- Agreed. LivinRealGüd (talk) 00:10, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- My take on this is that, especially because it's the lead section, significance should be placed on him becoming a centi-billionaire and the world's richest person. But since his wealth fluctuates so much with changes in Amazon stock prices, the day-to-day wealth isn't as important, and it's difficult to compare his wealth to historical individuals.
- Yeah, this one was a complicated edit. I have removed it because I do agree with your previous suggestion (one line above). Perhaps later we can get an editor consensus or I can re-word it so it makes a bit more sense. Right now it seems that most people don't know what to do with his net worth's value in history. LivinRealGüd (talk) 22:27, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
- Early life and education
- "a teenage mother, Jacklyn Gise Jorgensen, and father Ted Jorgensen, a Chicago native" Change to "born to Jacklyn Jorgensen ((née Gise) and Ted Jorgensen." If there is any information on Ted's occupation, include that as well. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "His mother was seventeen years old and still in high school at the time of his birth." Name Jacklyn in the sentence, and I recommend putting Jeff's birth as a preceding dependent clause. My take is "At the time of her son's birth, Jacklyn was a seventeen-year-old high school student." Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "After her nearly one-year marriage to Jorgensen came to an end, she married her second husband, Miguel "Mike" Bezos. Mike was a Cuban immigrant who moved to the U.S. aged 15" Combine these to a single sentence. My take is: "After divorcing Ted Jorgensen, Jacklyn married Miguel "Mike" Bezon, a Cuban immigrant, in April 1968" Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "Shortly after the wedding, Mike Bezos adopted four-year-old Jorgensen, whose surname was then changed to Bezos" Move the wedding date to the previous sentencem and remove "then" Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "His maternal ancestors were settlers who lived in Texas and over the generations acquired a 25,000-acre (101 km2 or 39 miles2) ranch near Cotulla, Texas. In later life Bezos grew this land to a 300,000-acre (1,214 km2 or 468 miles2) ranch complex. Bezos' maternal grandfather was Lawrence Preston Gise, a regional director of the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) in Albuquerque. Gise retired early to the ranch, where Bezos spent many summers as a youth, working with him. Bezos' maternal grandmother was Mattie Louise Gise (née Strait), through whom he is a cousin of country singer George Strait." Recommend reorganizing this. Introduce Bezos' grandparents first, then mention the ranch, and mention at the end that Bezos would later grow the ranch. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "attended the Student Science Training Program at the University of Florida, receiving a Silver Knight Award in 1982" 'attended' and 'receiving' switch tense Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "In 1986, Bezos graduated Phi Beta Kappa from Princeton University with a 4.2 grade point average and Bachelor of Science degrees in electrical engineering and computer science." Phi Beta Kappa is an honor society, and this sentence should reflect that Bezos was a member of it Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "computer science as a member of Phi Beta Kappa" change to "computer science, and was a member" Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- Business career
- Early career
- "Bezos was offered employment contracts with Intel, Bell Labs, and Andersen Consulting." 'employment contracts' is a strange way to refer to getting a job offer; recommend either shortening this sentence Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "He opted to work at a start-up company called Fitel. Hired as its 11th employee, he was tasked with building a network for international trade." Combine this in to one sentence, and make it sound more objective/encyclopedic instead of a narrative (e.g. "Bezos worked at Fitel" instead of "He opted to work...") Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "The company wanted to build a "worldwide telecommunications network for trading firms" that would assist them in clearing and settling "cross-border equity transactions"." Paraphrase the quotes, and put the description of Fitel in to the previous sentence. Much of this information is tangential, when all that needs to be said is that Bezos worked at a financial telecom company Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "His background in computer programming had him quickly promoted to head of development and director of customer service." This reads like a narrative; instead state that Bezos was promoted to head of development and customer service Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "As the head of development, he traveled on a weekly basis from New York to London" This seems tangential; is it relevant to Bezos's time at the company?
- Early career
- Early life and education
- I wanted to illustrate that it was a contributing factor to his leave. I re-worded it.. thoughts? LivinRealGüd (talk) 00:42, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- The article should not stray in to the specifics of Bezos's thoughts on the tasks of his old job; it comes across as a narrative instead of an encyclopedic article. I would say that my overall feedback for the article (having not yet typed all of it up) is that it reads like a story that tries to explain the rationale, motives, and thoughts of Bezos and those around him. While that is a perfectly valid way to tell a narrative, it is not in line with the Wikipedia format. In this example, the article needs to state that Bezos was working at a bank before leaving to found Amazon, but does not need to elaborate on why he decided to leave a given job. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 01:10, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Balon Greyjoy, Gotcha. That makes a lot of sense. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk) LivinRealGüd (talk) 03:40, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- The article should not stray in to the specifics of Bezos's thoughts on the tasks of his old job; it comes across as a narrative instead of an encyclopedic article. I would say that my overall feedback for the article (having not yet typed all of it up) is that it reads like a story that tries to explain the rationale, motives, and thoughts of Bezos and those around him. While that is a perfectly valid way to tell a narrative, it is not in line with the Wikipedia format. In this example, the article needs to state that Bezos was working at a bank before leaving to found Amazon, but does not need to elaborate on why he decided to leave a given job. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 01:10, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- I wanted to illustrate that it was a contributing factor to his leave. I re-worded it.. thoughts? LivinRealGüd (talk) 00:42, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- "After spending an unfruitful two years at the company, he left to take up a job in the banking industry." Remove this sentence, and just state that he transitioned to the bankingindustry when you describe taking a job at DE Shaw/Bankers Trust Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "He reflected on his time at Fitel as a lesson in how not to "organize a start-up company"." In keeping with the encyclopedic nature, this shouldn't be noting Bezos's criticism of individual employers Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "After working there from 1988 to 1990, he began searching for a technology-related field." This does not flow with the rest of the current paragraph, as he continues to work for a bank. It is clear that he eventually transitions to the tech industry when he begins at Amazon Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "During the late 1980s, a new hedge fund was founded by computer scientist David E. Shaw called D. E. Shaw & Co.[30] The job blended technology and finance in a way that attracted Bezos" This reads like an advertisment for DE Shaw, and should be removed. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "Bezos noted meeting Shaw as a good experience; he described Shaw as "artistic, articulate, and analytical"." Bezos's opinion of his boss is tangential information, and does not keep with the encyclopedic goal of the article. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "Aged 26, he was hired by Shaw to work on Internet-enabled business opportunities at the fund. From 1990 to 1994, he worked at the fund eventually rising to serve as the fourth senior vice president.[30] Bezos' work primarily dealt with "exploring new business opportunities in the burgeoning world of the Internet"" Combine these sentences to a single sentence. Describe that Bezos worked at hedge fund DE Shaw from 1990-1994, and would serve as fourth senior vice president. This should not include any quotes, and remove the job descriptions, as they are vague and non-specific. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- Amazon
- My overarching feedback for this section is that it includes far too many quotes, and gives too much detail regarding the operations and finances of Amazon. While Bezos is obviously very closely linked to Amazon, much of the information about its performance can and should be found on the Amazon page. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 02:22, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- "After Bezos heard of growth of the Internet during late 1993, he decided to start an online book depository that primarily dealt in exchange and marketing.[31] Upon reflection, Bezos said: "When I'm 80, am I going to regret leaving Wall Street? No. Will I regret missing the beginning of the Internet? Yes."[30] During this rapid growth, a new U.S. Supreme Court ruling exempted mail order companies from collecting sales taxes in states where they lack a physical presence. He left his high paying job at D. E. Shaw to set up his new company. When he told his boss that he wanted to start an Internet bookstore, Shaw thought it was a great idea for someone who didn't already have a high paying job." This section is tangential. The first sentence discusses the thoughtws, instead of the actions, of Bezos. The "no regrets" quote is discussed later in the article. The Supreme Court ruling, while important to the costs of Amazon, is not directly related to Bezos himself, and belongs in the Amazon page. Bezos's former boss's opinion of him leaving is also unecessary information. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "He founded Amazon on July 5, 1994, after driving from New York to Seattle, writing up its business plan on the way.[33] The company started in Bezos' garage in Seattle.[34] Bezos chose the name "Amazon" because it began with the first letter of the alphabet and was associated with the Amazon River in South America." These few sentences could be pared down. I recommend stating that Bezos moved to Seattle in 1994, where he began Amazon in his garage. Also, I recommend shortening the setence about the naming of Amazon, as it reads awkwardly. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "During the early years there, he gained a reputation for being a carefree mogul and while also being a micromanager." Others' opinions of Bezos do not belong in an encyclopedic article. Additionally, since there is a section about the leadership style, discussions of micromanagement are more appropriate there. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- " During its early years, the public rejected Amazon because it was so specifically geared toward the selling of books, however, Bezos argued that it was a technology company charged with making online transactions more intuitive for clients." This is a run-on sentence, and doesn't reveal much information, as Bezos's entire business model today is about making online shopping accessible. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "Three years after Bezos founded Amazon, he moved to take it public with an initial public offering (IPO) of $18.00/share in May 1997" Remove the per-share price, as that is more Amazon-specific than Bezos information. Additionally, it is redundant to put "Three years after" and "May 1997." Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "He warned many investors that there was a 70% chance of failure.[37] After a couple of years of modest performance, the price of the stock began to lag behind the competition and it fell below the predictions of Wall Street. In 1999, financial reporters took to calling Amazon "Amazon.bomb" for its poor stock performance.[38] Bezos was the target of many of these reports because his outgoing personality could not make up for the market dominance of other, more established companies." This is about the performance of Amazon, and is tangential for Bezos's Wikipedia article. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "In response to reporters from Fortune and Barron's, Bezos maintained that the growth of the Internet would overtake market competition from larger retailers such as Borders and Barnes & Noble." Instead of having Bezos counter reporters, this should be about Bezos countering lagging performance of his company. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "To push Amazon forward, Bezos developed the mantra "Get Big Fast", which spoke to the company's need to scale its operations and establish market dominance. He printed the slogan on t-shirts distributed among his employees." The 'Get Big Fast' falls under leadership style. Additionally, the t-shirts is extraneous information. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "In December 1996, it was reported that Amazon's customer base held steady at 180,000. A year later it had 1 million customers and had revenues in excess of $148 million in 1997, up from $15.7 million the year previous." This is more appropriate for the Amazon page, as it is specifically about Amazon performance. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "In early 2000, Amazon began hosting in-house storage for vendors; this new procedure expanded customer loyalty.[35] When the Dot-com Bubble burst and significantly impacted the technology market, Amazon weathered the crisis by spending heavily and focusing on building its brand rather than generating income" This is also mostly about Amazon operations, and not about Bezos's actions. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "In 2002, Bezos launched Amazon Web Services, which compiled data from weather channels and website traffic." While Bezos did have a hand in AWS, this reads as Bezos, not Amazon, launched the service. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- " During this time, he began stressing the idea of putting customers instead of competitors first.[41] Chris Anderson noted Amazon's business philosophy as attentive to "niche markets and customer service" This seems tangential, as prioritizing customers is not something unique to Bezos. Additionally, Anderson's comments seem out of place, especially as Amazon transitioned to a market for all. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "During late 2002, rapid spending from Amazon caused it financial distress after revenues stagnated.[43] Bezos borrowed $2 billion from select banks with only $350 million in holdings.[43] After nearly becoming bankrupt, Bezos closed distribution centers and laid off 14% of the Amazon workforce." This is important information, but should be pared down to 1 or 2 setences. Additionally, it needs to be stated that Amazon, not Bezos, nearly became bankrupt. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "In 2003, Amazon turned a profit of $400 million and Bezos gave a TED Talk titled "The electricity metaphor for the web's future" where he detailed the events of the dot-com bubble.[44] In 2005, he disclosed that Amazon was interested in entering the video streaming and rental business, however, he preferred to not elaborate on Amazon's business strategies at that time." While it should be noted that Amazon made a financial recovery, it should be a shorter sentence. Additionally, the TED talk, and his suggestion about video service seems tangential. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "In November 2007, Bezos launched the Amazon Kindle and announced its price of $399 to negative reaction.[45] The high sticker price reflected his belief that the Kindle served as the "iPod of reading" and separated its hardware and eBook businesses separate.[45][46] According to a 2008 Time profile, Bezos wished to create the same flow state found in video game simulations in books; he wished readers would fully engage with books.[47] In 2013, Bezos secured a $600 million dollar contract with the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) on behalf of Amazon Web Services.[48] " While products that Amazon launched should be noted, the text should be reduced to not include specific pricing and design decisions." Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "In October that year, Amazon was named the largest online shopping retailer in the world, which prompted Bezos to state: "Eighteen years ago I was trucking packages to the post office in my Chevy Blazer, I can assure you I did not expect to happen what happened"." This quote is unecessary, as it just illustrates that Amazon has grown. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- The last two paragraphs under Amazon can be reduced considerably. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- Blue Origin
- This section is a marked improvement over the Amazon section. It does delve into Blue Origin operations, but at a topical level that is still relative in a Jeff Bezos biography. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 03:41, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- " His motivation to do so was a result of his fascination with space travel,[62] including an early interest in developing human life in the solar system. A profile published in 2013 described a 1982 Miami Herald interview he gave after he was named high school class valedictorian. The 18-year-old Bezos stated that he wanted to build and develop hotels, amusement parks and colonies for human beings in orbit." Important section to show a long history of interest in space. However, I think this should be reduced to 2 sentences that discuss his long interest, and mention the interview he gave. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "came into public spotlight" show be 'entered the public' and this should also have a date associated with it Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "Bezos met with Richard Branson, chairman of Virgin Galactic in 2013" This should begin with the date the two men met Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- " In 2016, he opened up the Blue rocket design and manufacturing facility to journalists for the first time, and gave extensive interviews that included an articulation of his vision for space and for Blue Origin." This does not seem notable, as it appears that he gave a tour and an interview, and it doesn't provide any information as to his vision for Blue Origin Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "Blue Origin was in an extensive flight test program of New Shepard which expects to begin carrying test passengers in 2017 and initiate commercial flights in 2018" This needs to be updated, as no manned test flights have occured. Furthermore, it needs to be updated so the verb tense is consistent throughout the sentence. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- The Washington Post
- Few critiques for this section, as some of it reads like a defense of Bezos, but another well-done section.
- "Shortly after the announcement of intent to purchase, the paper published a long-form profile of Bezos on August 10, 2013." This seems unnecessary, it is just about the newspaper publishing an article about Bezos. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "He conducted no due diligence when accepting the first offer from former Washington Post owner Donald E. Graham" I read the referenced material, and I know that the lack of "due diligence" is a quote from Bezos, but this seems like a comment taken out of context. Since it is a $250 million purchase of a major newspaper, I'm sure that Bezos and his people did their "homework" before purchasing, as indicated by them setting up a corporation to manage the newspaper. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "Some reporters, media outlets, and politicians have expressed concern about a potential conflict of interest between Bezos and the paper.[79] Accusations of Bezos unfairly controlling the paper's content have been dismissed by Bezos, the editorial board, and most media outlets.[80] The paper routinely runs critical articles about Bezos and his business ventures, including one which accused Amazon of being a dangerous monopoly" I think it is fair, if not good, to point out that people have raised concerns about a conflict of interest, the last 2 sentences seem defensive of Bezos instead of neutral. I think it's best to reduce this to a sentence about people claiming a conflict of interest, and ending the sentence that this is a claim that Bezos and the Washington Post editorial board have denied. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "Since his purchase of the paper in 2013, the first profitable year was in 2016 after a surge in online-only readership.[82] In January 2018, the paper posted its third profitable year, doubling its digital subscriptions. Similar to early strategies undertaken at Amazon, Bezos reincorporated the paper's profit in order to expand its headquarters, grow its editorial team, and continue investing in technology" It's good to note that the paper has become profitable since Bezos's acquisition, but I don't think there should be repeat sentences about the profits. Futhermore, the last sentence is not neutral, as it appears to praise Bezos as a leader. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- Bezos Expedition
- Not much in the way of critiques for this section.
- "Bezos makes personal investments through his venture capital vehicle, Bezos Expeditions. Through this, he has backed companies across a wide range of industries" Recommend reducing this to a single sentence, as it's redundant to state the use of a venture capital firm in the second sentence. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- Remove the list structure of the different companies, as it is excessive. I would recommend using a sentence to highlight the companies that Bezos Expeditions is most involved in. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- Public Image
- This section, minus the leadership sub-section, which I will address separately, needs a significant overhaul. It is relevant to discuss his public image of nerdy Silicon Valley CEO transition to a more stereotypical corporate billionaire, but this section is overly detailed. The sentences about his leadership style should be moved to the leadership style sub-section, and his personal details should be moved to his personal life section.
- I have made a fairly extensive edit to the section. Let me know what you think. LivinRealGüd (talk) 04:36, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Leadership Style
- A good section that could still use some work, and should take in some of the leadership-related content from the public image section. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 04:29, 2 April 2018 (UTC) Done. Sections moved. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "His most known rendition of this life philosophy was quoted as "When I'm 80, am I going to regret leaving Wall Street? No. Will I regret missing the beginning of the Internet? Yes."" While this may be the best-known quote from Bezos, it's difficult to say that it is a the most well-known quote, as that is a difficult metric to measure. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "Bezos does not schedule early morning meetings and applies a two pizza rule: no meetings where two pizzas cannot feed everyone in the board room." While the two-pizza rule is interesting and should be explained, this needs to be a complete sentence. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- " Started in 1998, Bezos publishes an annual letter for Amazon shareholders, clients, staff, and customers. In this letter, aside from detailing company growth, Bezos elaborates on his leadership style. His letters frequently refer to five principles: focus on customers not competitors, take risks for market leadership, facilitate staff morality, build a company culture, and empower people." This should be reduced to a single sentence, including the five principles. Additionally, make sure the tense of the verbs remains consistent. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- Recognition
- No concern.
- Wealth
- This section is informative, but is overly detailed about the changes in Bezos's wealth. Since the year is usually stated in sentence, removed the "aged" sections of sentences. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "He lost $500 million the following year, which brought his net worth to his lowest point at $1.5 billion." This sentence doesn't make much sense, as he previously had less than $1.5 billion. I know that you mean since he became a billionaire, but it could be confusing to a reader. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- An overal critique I have is the removal of the yearly change in wealth. Acknowledge milestones such as becoming a millionaire, billionaire, centi-billionaire, but don't provide a yearly update, since it is included in the table.
- I believe that this is the most comprehensive account of his wealth in existence and due to the wide-spread usage of Wikipedia can be a immense resource for readers. I will compromise with you twice on this one actually. I will remove all the non-notable changes in wealth and of the notable changes retained I will shorten and combine date spans. I hope this is enough. My revision can be found here. LivinRealGüd (talk) 04:52, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- The table should be updated to reflect the current year, as its most recent year is 2008 Done. It seems to be updated to 2018, already. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "According to Maxim, his wealth, in 2017-18 terms, equaled that of 2.7 million Americans." This sentence reads awkwardly. Remove the "According to Maxim" part, and just cite it instead. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- Personal Life
- "off-kilter" is a colloquialism; use a different term Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- Use "helicopter" instead of "chopper" Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "Recalling the event, Bezos stated: "The biggest takeaway is: Avoid helicopters whenever possible! They're not as reliable as a fixed-wing aircraft."" This quote seems unecessary. If Bezos actively avoided helicopters now, it would be more relevant, but he is just stating the fact that fixed-wing aircraft are safer. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- Politics
- Overall, good section. I'll highlight my critiques below. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 05:46, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- "David Weigel has written that Bezos supports low taxes and social liberalism." This seems like information that is already addressed in the preceding sentence. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "His political donations have been mostly–but not exclusively–to Democratic Party candidates, movements, and politicians." Records of donations should be specific, as it's hard to characterize "mostly." The following sentences about who specifically Bezos has donated to are much more substantial. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "During a 2010 campaign to install an income tax on high net worth individuals in Washington, he donated $100,000 towards a movement against it." Make this sentence shorter. I would recommend starting with the donation and then just say it was against a campaign for the income tax. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- Philanthropy
- Need citation about the F-1 enging at the Seattle Museum of Flight Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "Bezos has notably not signed The Giving Pledge, a promise by the wealthiest of the world to give at least half of their money to charitable organizations." Recommend removing this sentence; it is hard to quantify if this is notable, and comes across as critical of Bezos. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "Trump has alluded to potential conflicts of interest between Amazon, the Washington Post, and Bezos. Trump accused Bezos using his business exploits to avoid corporate taxation, gain political influence, and undermine his presidency by spreading what he referred to as fake news." Reduce this to a single sentence, if possible. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:
- The article has a very high number of quotes, and does not comply with MOS:QUOTE. While certain quotes may be appropriate for statements made by Bezos, this article has numerous quotes from articles that should be in the author's own words to comply with the encyclopedic nature of the article.
- I have made a fairly significant revision to the article for it to comply with the quotes manual of style regarding your suggestion. My first couple of edits can be found here and here. I have made additional such edits. The ones I have otherwise retained seem to follow the guidelines regarding original wording and point of view (as you noted above). Eager to hear your thoughts. Let me know what else I can do. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- I have still noted some quotes that I find excessive, but this improvement alone has done wonders for the article. Nice job! Balon Greyjoy (talk) 03:46, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- I have made a fairly significant revision to the article for it to comply with the quotes manual of style regarding your suggestion. My first couple of edits can be found here and here. I have made additional such edits. The ones I have otherwise retained seem to follow the guidelines regarding original wording and point of view (as you noted above). Eager to hear your thoughts. Let me know what else I can do. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- No other issues with MOS.
- Is it verifiable with no original research?
- A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:
- Standardize the date formats for the references. Somare are given "4-2-2018" and others are "April 2, 2018" Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- Consolidate the Robinson citations so they all reference one full citation in the ref lift. Move the book citation to the first reference, and then continually refer to it by its name. After the citation, use the rp|pp. format to list the page.
- A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:
- @Balon Greyjoy, can you tell me a little more about this? LivinRealGüd (talk) 03:24, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- I would recommend checking out the article Thomas P. Stafford (I chose this one because I brought it to GA status and know this is the citation method I used). This citation method allows you to repeatedly cite a single book, while indicating the page(s) that certain information came from. You have numerous entries in the references section for the Robinson book, and that could all be consolidated into a single reference on the list that is just used multiple times. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 03:55, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- I think that citation style is interesting. However, I don't think I know how to do it that way. In any case, I'd like to follow the more standard renditions of Template:Cite book and WP:CITE. I modeled my citation style after Abraham Lincoln (good article), Franklin Pierce (featured article), and Barack Obama (featured article). If its good enough for them, it think its good enough for this article. Don't get me wrong, I like the style, I'd just rather not have it tied to the GA Review. Best, LivinRealGüd (talk) 04:46, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- I would recommend checking out the article Thomas P. Stafford (I chose this one because I brought it to GA status and know this is the citation method I used). This citation method allows you to repeatedly cite a single book, while indicating the page(s) that certain information came from. You have numerous entries in the references section for the Robinson book, and that could all be consolidated into a single reference on the list that is just used multiple times. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 03:55, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Balon Greyjoy, can you tell me a little more about this? LivinRealGüd (talk) 03:24, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- You have incomplete information in some of the tabs, including not having the author listed, despite the author's name being available on the article. Examples include "Jeff Bezos: Blue Origin Wants to Colonize the Solar System" and "What Makes Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos Such a Visionary Leader" Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- B. All in-line citations are from reliable sources, including those for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines:
- No concern, other than fixing the citations, especially the Robinson book.
- C. It contains no original research:
- Nothing other than the uncited material. Done. Citation added to section. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:
- Earwig has a very high plagiarism rating, likely a result of all of the direct quotes in the article. I will redo this analysis when the quotes are paraphrased to adhere to MOS:QUOTE.
- Even with the quote removal, this is still showing up as very similar to another source. I recommend you take a look at it and begin paraphrasing certain sections. Done. Edit completed. Looks like Bezos is at 29.6%, and Thomas P. Stafford's at 60.5%–a good article. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- Earwig has a very high plagiarism rating, likely a result of all of the direct quotes in the article. I will redo this analysis when the quotes are paraphrased to adhere to MOS:QUOTE.
- A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:
- As mentioned in the overview, this page strays from the main topic quite a bit. I recommend looking at my guide for changing the article to get my opinion on how it could get more focused. Done. Edits completed or addressed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):
- Again, as mentioned above, the article have unecessarily high amounts of detail for Amazon operation, Bezos's thoughts, and his wealth. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- Is it neutral?
- It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:
- As mentioned above, the Washington Post section takes a fairly pro-Bezos stance that should be addressed. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:
- Is it stable?
- It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:
- Aside from some blatant vandalism, the only contentious edits appear to be about Bezos's political involvement and his ownership of the Washington Post. However, this doesn't appear to have manifested as an edit way, with only a handful of such edits appearing.
- It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:
- Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?
- A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:
- No concern.
- B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
- Add a year to the caption of the Blue Origin tour and the Adobe of Chaos photos Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:
- Overall:
- Pass or Fail:
- Lot of work to be done on this article; hopefully we can get it to a GA! I am done with my initial review, but will likely add comments later (most likely 10-15 seconds after pressing 'Save'). Good luck, and ask me if you have any questions! Balon Greyjoy (talk) 07:52, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- Hello Balon Greyjoy! I have completed your suggested edits or otherwise addressed them. Let me know what else I can do. Your suggestions have really spruced the article up. LivinRealGüd (talk) 05:26, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Lot of work to be done on this article; hopefully we can get it to a GA! I am done with my initial review, but will likely add comments later (most likely 10-15 seconds after pressing 'Save'). Good luck, and ask me if you have any questions! Balon Greyjoy (talk) 07:52, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- Pass or Fail:
Second Round of GA Review
@LivinRealGüd: Since revisions to this article were so significant, I want to take a second pass at the review. I think the article has progressed significantly, and is on track to become a GA. I see some of your rebuttals to my previous critiques, and think you have raised some good points. Nice job! Balon Greyjoy (talk) 00:05, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- Is it well written?
- A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:
- Lead
- No concern
- Early life and education
- "Gise retired early to the ranch, where Bezos spent many summers as a youth, working with him." The ranch needs to be introduced in this sentence. I would suggest combing it with some of the info from later int he paragraph. Something to the effect of "Gise retired early to his family's ranch near Cotulla, Texas, where Bezos would spend many summers in his youth." You can then mention that Bezos has since grown the ranch, and then transition into the relation with George Strait. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "Although his maternal ancestors, over the generations, acquired a 25,000-acre (101 km2 or 39 miles2) of land, Bezos would grew this plot into 300,000-acre (1,214 km2 or 468 miles2) ranch complex in later life." This sentence reads awkwardly. My take is "Bezos would later purchase this ranch, and grow it from 25,000 acres to 300,000 acres." Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "Bezos would later purchase this ranch, and grow it from 25,000-acre (101 km2 or 39 miles2) to a 300,000-acre (1,214 km2 or 468 miles2) ranch complex" As you have already named the ranch in the beginning of the sentence, you don't need to add "ranch complex" at the end of the sentence. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- Business career
- Early career
- "He first worked at a start-up financial telecommunications company called Fitel as their 11th employee; he was tasked with building a network for international trade." This reads awkwadly. I would recommend introducing the name of the company first, and then explain it, and also don't split this into two clauses. My take is: "He first worked at Fitel, a financial telecommunications start-up, where he was tasked with building a network for international trade." Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "senior vice president, aged 30" I think Bezos's age is extraneous information. However, if you think it should be kept, I recommend making it into a sentence, such as "serving as its fourth senior vice president at the age of 30." Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- Amazon
- "Soon after he left" Take out the 'soon after' as the date of the leaving his job and founding Amazon is in the article. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "In late 1993, he decided to start an online book depository that primarily dealt in exchange and marketing. He left his high paying job at D. E. Shaw to set up his new company." I would recommend combinging these two sentences. "Online book depository" is not a common phrase; I would recommend "online book store." Also, it is important to introduce Bezos by name in a new parahraph. My take it "In late 1993, Bezos left his job at D. E. Shaw to start an online book store." Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- This are still two sentences in your recent update. If you would like it to remain as such, I recommend removing "that primarily dealt in exchange and marketing" as this is never explained or elaborated upon, and also removing "high paying" as this is a relative value. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "Although Amazon was just an online bookstore, he had always envisioned it going beyond the original book depository" I would recommend rephrasing this, and also not having a repeat use of the phrase "online book." My take is "Although Amazon was originally an online bookstore, Bezos had always planned to expand to other products." Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "music and video; he expanded to a variety of consumer goods by the end of that same year." I would make this a single flowing sentence instead of two clauses. My take is: "...music and video, and expanded to include a variety of consumer goods by the end of the year." Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "Bezos personally launched Amazon's Web Services" This is a strange way of putting it, as it implies that Bezos launched a new company instead of a new branch of Amazon. I would change it to "In 2002, Amazon launched Amazon's Web Services" Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "Amazon was named the largest online shopping retailer in the world" should be "Amazon was named as the largest..." Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "Bezos initiated wide-spread hiring sprees across company distribution centers a year previous, taking on 130,000 new employees." This is odd that it is out of chronological order from the rest of the paragraph. I would move it after the first sentence, and say "In 2017, Amazon hired 130,000 new employees after Bezos initiated a hiring spree at company distribution centers." Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "The comments stripped 9% from Amazon's share value and reduced Bezos' personal net worth by $10.7 billion on March 29." This personifies the comments, which did not reduce to share value; it was consumer and investor response to the comments. My take is "In response to the negative comments, Amazon share prices fell by 9%, reducing Bezos' personal wealth by $10.7 billion." Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "Despite the accusations, most media outlets called the comments false, inaccurate, or mischaracterizing." This may belong under the MOS section. You should get away from referencing "most media outlets," as that's a subjective term that it hard to prove without citing all of the media outlets. I would see if you can find a source of Bezos personally disputing these comments, and reference that. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- Blue Origin
- Move or resize the pictures so that the 'Blue Origin' title is flush with the left side of the page. Done. Pictures moved. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "his valedictorian tyrian speech" Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "Blue Origin was kept secret for a few years; it became publicly known only in 2006 when it purchased a large amount of land in west Texas for a launch and test facility." Remove the semi-color and make this a continuous sentence. Also, I would recommend using a different word than "secret," as it wasn't any sort of classified operation. My take is, "After its founding, Blue Origin maintained a low profile until 2006, when it purchas a large tract of land in West Texas for a launch and test facility." Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "He indicated that his ambitions in space are not location dependent—Mars, Lunar, asteroidal, etc." Recommend removing this sentence. I know what you mean by it, as all companies would like to travel to all of the places in space, but Blue Origin has clearly prioritized its Earth orbit and lunar mission profiles. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- " Despite maintaining his rocket company with a veil of secrecy, he allowed select journalists to visit, tour, and take photos of his facility in 2016." Recommend removing the first part of this sentence to avoid editorializing. My take is "In 2016, Bezos allowed select journalists to visit, tour, and photograph his facility." Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "for late-2010s first flight" should be "for a first flight in the late-2010s" Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "In September 2017, he added that he hoped to colonize the solar system and a month later he sold about $1 billion in Amazon stock" used a different word than 'added', and this also reads awkwardly. My take is "In late-2017, Bezos announced that he hoped to colonize the solar system, and sold $1 billion in Amazon stock" Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- See Original Research section for some information/citation issues Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- The Washington Post
- "Although The New York Times is typically referred to as the newspaper of record, Bezos expressed an interest in giving his paper's content for free in local American newspapers in an effort to challenge The New York Times' position" It's redundant to say New York Times twice. Recommend changing it to something more along the lines of "Bezos expressed an interest in giving his paper's content for free in local American newspapers in an effort to challenge The New York Times' position as the newspaper of record." Also, see the the Original Research Section Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- " Some reporters, media outlets, and politicians have expressed concern about a potential conflict of interest between Bezos and the paper" This needs to be clarified, as it is vague generalize some reported, media outlets, and politicians. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "Bezos, the editorial board, and most media outlets" recommend changing this to "Bezos and the Washington Post editorial board." Referencing "most media outlets" is vague. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "Since his purchase of the paper in 2013, the first profitable year was in 2016 after a surge in online-only readership." This reads awkwardly. My take is "After a surge in online readership in 2016, The Washington Post was profitable for the first time since Bezos' 2013 purchase. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- Bezos Expeditions
- No concern
- Early career
- Public Image
- "While working in early manifestations of Amazon's headquarters, as a multi-billionaire, Bezos hung his clothes on a rack in his office and drove a 1996 Honda Accord." This reads awkwardly; I recommend shortening it. My take is "As a multi-billionaire, Bezos hung his clothes on a rack in his Amazon headquarters office and drove a 1996 Honda Accord." Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "Sometime during the early 2010s, while his reputation for imperialistic business practices solidified, his public image began to shift." Reference Bezos by name in this sentence, as it is a new paragraph and shouldn't start off with pronouns. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "His physical appearance increased the public's perception of him as a symbolically dominant figure in business and in popular culture. Starting in 2017, he was parodied as being supernatural and akin to an enterprising super villain." Recommend combining these sentences. My take is "His physical appearance increased the public's perception of him as a symbolically dominant figure in business and in popular culture, and he has been parodied as an enterprising super villain." I think it's good (not to mention funny) to mention the super villian joke, but unecessarily detailed to describe multiple related ways that Bezos is parodied. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "His physical appearance has been characterized with a height of 5′ 7″ (1.70 m) to 5′ 8″ (1.73 m), a shaved head, and a built physicality." This sentence should be removed. His height is not notable (short or tall), and his shaved head is apparent from photos. Additionally, you describe that he conducts weight training, so this just seems like a redundant sentence. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "His lifestyle also contributes to his public image." This should be removed, as it's true for any public figure. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "According to numerous descriptions of his daily routine, he wakes up naturally between 7:00 and 8:00 a.m. without the aid of an alarm clock." This is unnecessary, as it's not a notably early or late habit that would generate public interest. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "According to numerous descriptions of his daily life, he is known" This should be replaced with "Bezos" as it's vague about the descriptions about his life, and it's vague to say that he is known. Assuming the sources are reliable, you can say that "Bezos eats exotic food..." Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "In addition to frequenting food trucks," This dependent clause is unnecessary, as although he may eat at food trucks, it's not a notable trait about him. The rest of the sentence is good and notable. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "drew a negative response with the public" should be "negative response from the public" Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- " he has been parodied as an enterprising super villain.[96] Starting in 2017, he was parodied as being supernatural and akin to an enterprising super villain." Looks like you forgot to take out the second sentence. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "eats exotic foods such" Need a comma between foods and such Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- Leadership style
- "He printed the slogan on t-shirts distributed among his employees." I think this sentence is tangential, and is overshadowed the the mantra itself. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "He is said to meet with Amazon investors for a total of only six hours a year." Remove the 'he is said' and reformat to make it a sentence again. It's editorializing to just reference unnamed sources that say this. If it's a reputable source, the sentence should just read "Bezos meets with Amazon..." Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- Recognition
- "In September 2016, Bezos was awarded the Heinlein Prize for Advances in Space Commercialization, which earned him $250,000, which he donated to the Students for the Exploration and Development of Space" Avoid starting two clauses in a row with "which." My take is "In September 2016, Bezos received a $250,000 prize for winning the Heinlein Prize for Advances in Space Commercialization, which he donated to the Students for the Exploration and Development of Space." Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- Wealth
- While I still maintain that this section should be less detailed, you bring up good points about this being the best account of Bezos's wealth, and the section is well-written. It's approval for GA won't be affected by this remaining unchanged. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "After a rumor broke out that Amazon was developing a smartphone, his net worth rose to $30.5 billon despite Bloomberg publishing multiple pieces stating that his wealth declined in 2014." Remove the dispute about Bloomberg. Assuming the source you have is accurate, it's better to not reference bad information put out by other sources. My take is "After a rumor broke out that Amazon was developing a smartphone, his net worth rose to $30.5 billon" Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- In the second, third, and fourth paragraph, the first sentence references Bezos by a pronoun. It should be changed to his name. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- Personal life
- Move or resize the graph so that 'Personal life' is flush with the left side. Done. Graph resized and moved. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "In 2016, Bezos played a Starfleet official in the movie Star Trek Beyond, later joining the cast and crew at a San Diego Comic-Con screening." Make sure the verb tense is consistent. My take would be "...Star Trek Beyond, and joined the cast and crew..." Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- Politics
- "Jeff Bezos has been profiled as a Democrat, Libertarian, and a Libertarian Democrat" Recommend taking this sentence out, as it is just referencing what others suspect and not what Bezos has outright stated. Additionally, it's confusing, as the last title is just the combination of the first two. Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "Despite Bezos' criticism of U.S. president Donald Trump during the 2016 presidential election, he was asked to join Trump's Defense Innovation Board, an advisory council to improve the technology used by the Defense Department." Using 'despite' is editorializing. I would change this to state the facts instead of contrasting the invitation with Bezos's beliefs. My take is "After the 2016 presidential election, Bezos was invited to join Trump's Defense Innovation..." Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- Philanthropy
- "Although secretive about his plans, Jeff Bezos" Remove the dependent clause and just begin the sentence with "Jeff Bezos" as the beginning is editorializing his philanthropy Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- Lead
- B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:
- As mentioned in some comments above, there are a few cases of WP:EDITORIALIZING Done. Edit completed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:
- Is it verifiable with no original research?
- A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:
- No concern.
- B. All in-line citations are from reliable sources, including those for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines:
- No concern.
- C. It contains no original research:
- In the last paragraph of the "Blue Origin" section, you reference events that occured in December 2017, but of the 3 sources in the paragrap, the most recent article date in April 2017. Also, there have been no crewed test flights by Blue Origins rockets/capsules. Done. Edit clarified. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- "Bezos expressed an interest in giving his paper's content for free in local American newspapers in an effort to challenge The New York Times' position" In the references for this paragraph, I didn't find any information about Bezos hoping to contend with the NY Times. Done. Edit removed. LivinRealGüd (talk)
- With the fixes, this looks good.
- D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:
- No concern.
- A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:
- This article now maintains a good scope for Jeff Bezos.
- B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):
- This article now stays on topic.
- A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:
- Is it neutral?
- It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:
- This article is neutral.
- It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:
- Is it stable?
- It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:
- No concern.
- It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:
- Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?
- A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:
- No concern.
- B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
- No concern.
- A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:
- Overall:
- Pass or Fail:
- Great job getting this article up to Good Article status. You really put in the leg work the past few days. In the future, I would recommend performing a GA self-assement on your articles before nominating them; it'll make the review process that much less painful. Best of luck in the future! Balon Greyjoy (talk) 05:15, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- Pass or Fail:
- Duly noted! Thanks a million for the review, Balon Greyjoy! :) LivinRealGüd (talk) 05:29, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
My second review is complete, and I'll be leaving the page on hold for now. I'll check back for any updates, and will post any additional recommended edits as necessary. Let me know if you have any questions! Balon Greyjoy (talk) 05:40, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions about Jeff Bezos. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |