Talk:Jim Anderson (loyalist)

Notification

{{BLP noticeboard}} Kathleen's bike (talk) 16:30, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

• Jim Anderson, loyalist: Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
• Leonard James Anderson, loyalist: Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Perhaps these links can be of use in finding better reliable sources giving encyclopedic coverage. JFHJr (㊟) 04:32, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

This is what the books cited in the article say.

Crimes of Loyalty. A History of the UDA. Wood

• Page 8 "Jim Anderson, who ran a glazier’s business on the Crumlin Road, took over as acting chairman and fully supported Fogel, who organised the sealing off of Woodvale with barricades and roadblocks at the end of May"
• Page 16 "Fogel thought this had a bad effect on them: ‘We got so bored that Jim Anderson, the chairman, had to begin an attendance register, like we had at school.'"
• Page 20 "Fogel claimed that Herron did this because he was under threat and informed Jim Anderson, then co-chairman of the UDA with Harding Smith, that his running of the Woodvale company was being questioned"
• Page 23 "Earlier in the year, Jim Anderson had resigned from his position as joint chairman with Harding Smith"
• Page 103 "UDA leaders and activists who arrived on the scene included Fogel, Tommy Herron, Jim Anderson, Sammy Doyle and Andy Tyrie"
• Page 347 "A glazier by trade, he was active in the original Woodvale Defence Association and then in the UDA itself. He was for a time co-chairman of the West Belfast UDA but stood down from that position in 1973. In September of that year he supported Andy Tyrie as a compromise leadership candidate and in November 1974 he survived an IRA attempt on his life"

Loyalists. Taylor

• Page 103 "The new acting Chairman was a glazier from the Crumlin Road called Jim Anderson"
• Page 114 "Harding Smith soon took control of the UDA in West Belfast, ousting Dave Fogel, and became joint Chairman of the organization with Jim Anderson who had been acting as a caretaker while Harding Smith was away" and "By the spring of 1973, the UDA power struggle that was to lead to the exile of two of its protagonists and the murder of the third, had been resolved as a meeting at the Park Avenue Hotel in Belfast, called to decided the succession between Harding Smith and Tommy Herron after the acting Chairman, Jim Anderson, had decided to stand down"

The UDA – Inside the Heart of Loyalist Terror. McDonald/Cusack

• Page 19 "One of the more respected organizes in the mid-Shankill was Jim Anderson, who owned a glazier's shop on the Crumlin Road. Billy Hiull, over 20 stone in weight and a well-known shop steward, worked closely with Anderson
• Page 20 "However, from the beginning there was rivalry and mutual distrust, and within a couple of months Moon found himself edged out in favour of Jim Anderson)
• Page 22 "By January 1972 the UDA had acquired a structure: it had a thirteen-member 'Security Council', with Harding Smith, Jim Anderson and Tommy Herron from East Belfast already established as leading figures. Harding Smith claimed the chairmanship over the less pugnacious Jim Anderson
• Page 25 "Jim Anderson, the first overall leader, with the title of 'Major General', claimed in the early days that he could summon between 25,000 and 100,000 men, half of them armed."
• Page 29 "The army offered compromises to Jim Anderson, Davy Fogel, Tommy Herron and Sammy Doyle from the Shankill, which were discussed and rejected."
• Page 33 "Others followed suit to that eventually Anderson was reduced to calling an attendance roll."
• Page 38 "Herron and Anderson were beginning to come under pressure from people within their communities who were disgusted at the looting, hijacking and arson that had broken out among the undisciplined UDA ranks" (note, there's a brief mention of Anderson earlier on the page in a sentence otherwise talking about Tommy Herron, simply mentioning that Herron had been styling himself as deputy to Anderson)
• Page 64 "The organization had many issues to discuss, including the replacement of Jim Anderson who had announced his resignation. Anderson was already a marginal figure, uneasy with the hard men around him, who now had a grip on an organization which, broadly speaking, law-abiding figures like him had formed as a legitimate defence associsation for the Ulster working classes."
• Page 90 "Two days before the Birmingham bombs the IRA attacked Jim Anderson's shop on the Crumlin Road and shot him several timnes. Billy Hull was shot in the same attack. Both survived. It was a highly provocative act as it was well known that neither was seriously involved in the 'military' side of the UDA. They were easy targets."

The Red Hand Protestant Paramilitaries in Northern Ireland. Bruce

• Page 50 "When he was eased out by Jim Anderson, a glazier who was prominent in the vigilantes in the Woodwave area, Moon was privately pleased and from September had nothing more to do with the movement."
• Page 62 "General Ford, GOC Land Forces, arrived around nine o'clock and started talks with Herron, Jim Anderson, Sammy Doyle and Davy Fogel."
• Page 64 "On his return Harding resumsed control of the west Belfast UDA and was appointed 'joint chairman' with Jim Anderson of Woodvale.
• Page 72 "In early 1973 Jim Anderson, who was joint chairman with Harding, announced that he wanted to stand down."
• Page 73 "Contrary to Dillon's and Lehane's assertion that Anderson disliked Herron, the two men were, in the words of a man who worked closely with them, 'buddy, buddy', and shared a dislike of Harding, whom they were committed to excluding from the chair."
• Page 102 "When Jim Anderson and Billy Hull were shot and wounded by the IRA on 9 November 1974, there was a phone call to the BBC claiming the hit fopr the UDA Young Militants (YM). The YM certainly existed-they were really just a section of the UFF strong in west Belfast-but they had no reason to attack the ex-chairman of the UDA and an ex-LAW leader and plausibly denied all knowledge of what was actually the work of the Ardoyne Provisionals."

I have only included direct mentions of Anderson. On page 103 of Taylor there is some additional information which doesn't directly mention Anbderson that pretty much sources what is covered at Jim Anderson (loyalist)#Leadership.

In my eyes, there is very little here. The books largely cover the same small amount of ground, most of them including the few facts known about Anderson. I don't think there's much that can't be covered in context at Ulster Defence Association#Beginning. His date of birth (be it 1930 as the article said until recently, or 1931 as claimed by an IP saying they are a family member) can't be sourced, and neither can his claimed death. Merging may be the preffered option to sidestep the claimed death issues? Kathleen's bike (talk) 14:12, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

I did some newspapers.com searching to see if I could find better source. I left out all the one-sentence and some of the two-sentence sources... but I cannot say that there's much more there. I don't think this moved the needle much.

• probably the biggest use of Anderson, discussed in three consecutive pargraphs..
• Has a few sentences about him when he was shot
• Provos and UDA threaten to take 'war' into Eire has a few sentences
• two sentences
• another two-sentence, roughly the same
• Three sentences, part one part two
• about four sentences on the shooting
• Loyalist leaders gunned down
• on being shot

Nat Gertler (talk) 17:55, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for those. Other than one source confirming he was in his early 40s at the time of writing, they don't add much to what the books say. Kathleen's bike (talk) 10:24, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Merger

As detailed in the section above, there's only a couple of facts available about this person. The claimed death in particular can't be reliably sourced, and I will be removing it in addition to other content. I believe the internal UDA power struggle between other people which Anderson ended up in the middle of, which constitutes most of this article, is best covered at Ulster Defence Association#Beginning and should be merged to there. Kathleen's bike (talk) 10:28, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

  Y Merger complete. Klbrain (talk) 07:38, 25 February 2024 (UTC)