Talk:Jim Carroll/Archive 1

Archive 1

No mention of marriage

Jim was married to Rosemary Carroll, who later married Danny Goldberg. Rosemary is notable as an entertainment lawyer. She is also the one who suggested to a private investigator hired by Courtney Love that Kurt's death was possibly not a suicide. Thus, she is indirectly responsible for the "Kurt Cobain was murdered" theory. While this is not notable to Jim's article, I do find it interesting that Rosemary has connections to two famous heroin icons.

I don't see mention of Jim being married to Rosemary in this article, maybe someone could add it in who has better knowledge of the subject than I. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Timewalk92 (talk • contribs) 23:04, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Please remove Aushwitz photo

Can we please remove the Auschwitz photo of Jim? It is upsetting to fans (who are starting to spread rumors), it is potentially destructive to his career, and it is not a representative photo of the man. As he stated on the date the photo was taken (at the Brooklyn Book Festival), he had been sick in bed for the previous week. It borders upon vicious to represent him this way. --Bristlecone (talk) 22:33, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I do not see a reason to remove the photo, and none of the above-mentioned reasons are valid. He posed for the photo. It's what the dude looks like. All the other photos are years old. --David Shankbone 22:47, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

The photo is what Jim looked like after being sick in bed for a week. I realize he agreed to let you take the photo. I watched you take it. Are you actively trying to harm Jim, or do you have some other intention?

While I'm asking, who decided this bio should be associated with gay/lesbian/bi/trans, and why?--Bristlecone (talk) 23:14, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I have no opinion of Carrol, which is what makes my POV NPOV; you clearly have a POV here - which is to elevate him. I don't wish to elevate or lower him. I haven't read his work. The project decides the LGBT because of his history and a cited source saying he is LGBT. --David Shankbone 23:17, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Cited source? Where? It's certainly not mentioned in the bio. As for your NPOV, if you know nothing about him, how come you are so sure your photo is what he looks like? I see him all the time, and he is a friend of mine. That is not what he usually looks like. You are exploiting a bad situation for no apparent reason. And it does not help to start pointing a finger at me and accusing me of "elevating" anyone when you don't know me from Adam.--Bristlecone (talk) 23:31, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but you started pointing fingers above ("Are you actively trying to harm Jim, or do you have some other intention"), and you admit you are a friend of his, so it's a reasonable assumption you have a POV.

Regarding the LGBT issue, he wrote an autobiography that he was a gay hustler. So are you claiming he is not gay or bisexual? If so, you should produce a source where he states this. Alternatively, I can interview him on Wikinews and get him on the record and also re-shoot a photo. Either way, we can involve more people in the discussion if you wish. Like I said, I have no POV on this either way. --David Shankbone 23:45, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

For the record, being a male hustler does not mean a person is gay, and at no time anywhere has Jim ever said he is gay. Anyway, the idea of a re-shoot and interview is something to consider, but I will need to spend some time looking at your "credentials" before I can pitch the idea to Jim (as you know, he is finishing a novel, and as a rule he has not been granting interviews except to promote readings). Perhaps you can point me to some good examples that I can look at. Also, I assume you would familiarize yourself with Jim's work before interviewing him. In the meantime, can we please just remove the photo? --Bristlecone (talk) 00:04, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

You can look at my User page for any interviews. I don't see a reason to remove the photo, and if I do or don't interview him does not make much difference to me. The offer is to help him not me. Aside from that, I'm overwhelmed with interviews right now, including a trip to Israel for Wikimedia projects, so it wouldn't be this year regardless. If he is interested, let me know. --David Shankbone 00:10, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Are you saying that promotion of yourself is the reason the photo should remain on Jim Carroll's biography? What other purpose does it serve?--Bristlecone (talk) 16:42, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm not going to bother to answer a "Are you still beating your wife" question. --David Shankbone 16:45, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm a little late entering this discussion, but it seems that all the topics are still relevant and have not changed.

Look people, the photo isn't a great shot. So if someone has another free-use photo of Jim, great! Post it! Otherwise, the current one should stay. Not a single valid reason has been cited for its removal. However, personally, I don't see why a free-use shot from his early years is so bad. On Wikipedia, many other notables who's notability began/occurred long in the past have great portrait photos from those earlier days. And Jim did write much of his work in the seventies and eighties, so such a photo wouldn't be obsolete. But, if we are to use a rather current photo, the one that's up does seem to meet the requirements for inclusion as far as I'm concerned. On this issue, Bristlecone, you seem to be the one with the photo beef here. Since, as you claim, you "see him all the time and he is a friend of [yours]," why don't you take a picture of him and post it. Or, since he's your "buddy," perhaps you already have a picture of him you'd rather post on this page to replace the current one.

Regarding the gay/bi-sexual issue, if he never admitted to being gay or bi-sexual, then that piece of information should be removed from the article. Yes, it is correct that being a male hustler does not make one gay or bi. Just because a man prostitutes himself to other men does not mean he is gay or bi. In fact, it's rather well known that many such men, particularly those who do it for money for drug habits, are straight. And if Jim has indeed never commented on his sexual orientation, then people are merely speculating on this topic. And, as far as the LGBT Project tag is concerned, unless the Project considers prostitution that happens to be man-on-man (but not necessarily involving two homosexual men) under its scope, the tag should be removed. I'm not familiar with the LGBT Project scope so this is just what seems rational to me.

Regarding this interview and photo shoot stuff, that discussion is inappropriate for this Wikipedia talk page. Wiki talk pages are only for discussions directly related to the article at hand. WikiNews stuff is not meant to be here, even if its related to Jim Carroll. Sorry to be a stickler, David -- I know you didn't intend to err. And, to speak candidly, Bristlecone, you don't need to act the middleman. You needn't be the artiber of whether or not Jim takes an interview or photo shoot. I'm sure Jim's publicist can handle that just fine. Please don't mistake this for my not AGFing. It's just that you don't need to be Jim's or his publicist's proxy. ask123 (talk) 07:05, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

No source to following quote on birthplace or citizenship.

Born and raised in New York City and of Irish descent, Carroll attended Roman Catholic grammar schools from 1955 to 1963. In fall 1963, he entered public school, but was soon awarded a scholarship to the elite Trinity School (a private school). He entered Trinity High School in 1964.

His birthplace is not sourced. There is also no source of his Irish citizenship. He's an American, so it's self explanatory he's a citizen of our country. I'm not denying that he's of Irish descent too (although there's no citation), but there's no citation that says he has Irish citizenship. TomNyj0127 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 04:54, 5 September 2009 (UTC).

Organic Trains

This Wikipedia article calls Organic Trains a "book" but his New York Times obit[1] lists it as a "pamphlet." An inconsistency that should be addressed. 173.49.135.190 (talk) 17:01, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Age at death: 59 or 60?

The New York Times obit[2] lists his age as 60 but this Wikipedia article says his age was 59. An obvious inconsistency that needs remedying. 173.49.135.190 (talk) 16:59, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Poetry Project newsletter on line (people who knew Carroll for a long time) has the birth year at 1949, and grade school starting at 1955 would be more likely at six years old than at five. Does anyone have actual birth certificate/driver's license information? I think 1949 is more accurate. MizOre (talk)MizOre —Preceding undated comment added 06:48, 16 September 2009 (UTC).

Fall out

Editor NapoleonX seems to be unaware of a small and trivial style-guideline: The names of seasons in Wikipedia are written with lower case, i.e. summer, fall, winter, spring. The names are not capitalized. (See here.) Since that user has put up a note in their Talk page signaling that comments will be ignored (!) I'm posting this here so that they might take notice. -The Gnome (talk) 08:08, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Bisexuality

Agreed Jim Carroll was bisexual and this is not a secret and he should be included in the bisexual writers category. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.52.111.173 (talk) 00:54, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

The List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people: C cites The Basketball Diaries as a reference for Carroll being gay or bisexual. I haven't read it - does anyone here know if it has any information? -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 17:07, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

when carroll was a teen he was desperate for heroin cash and had some degree of sex with men for money. There's no indication anywhere that he's gay there or since. catergorizing one's sexuality on their biography requires definitive proof from good sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cookiehead (talk • contribs) 16:16, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Is that the info from Basketball Diaries? If that's all it says, I'll remove him from the list. Thanks. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 17:56, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Jim Carroll was bisexual. He's not straight. Read The Basketball Diaries and The Forced Entries and you'll see that he has sex with both men and women and does not always do it for pay or for drugs.

Then there are people who knew him lover Patti Smith. http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/09/13/rip-jim-carroll/

For example, here is a passage from "Please Kill Me: The Uncensored Oral History of Punk," by Legs McNeil and Gillian McCain (1996, Grove Press). This book will be on the stands in July. I am quoting from the uncorrected galleys without permission (I'll bet that Legs and Gillian won't mind, though, as this may increase interest in their very illuminating and passionate book).

Here, Patti is commenting on a time when Carroll didn't show up at a poetry reading at St. Mark's Church, and how some of the powers-that-were at the Poetry Project were upset by that:

"PATTI SMITH: Jim Carroll was the St. Marks Poetry Project's chance to have something real among them. Jim Carroll is one of America's true poets. I mean, he is a true poet. He's a junkie. He's bisexual. He's been fucked by every male and female genius in America. He's been fucked over by all those people. He lives all over. He lives a disgusting life. Sometimes you have to pull him out of a gutter. He's been in prison. He's a total fuck-up. But what great poet wasn't? It kills me that at twenty-three Jim Carroll wrote all his best poems - the same year of his life that Rimbaud did. He had all the same intellectual quality and bravado as Rimbaud. But they black-balled him because he fucked up. He didn't come to his poetry reading. He was in jail. Good for him. They said, 'Oh well, we can't ask him to do poetry readings anymore.' It was ridiculous."

SO THERE YOU HAVE IT, Patti's own words on Jim Carroll.

From Carroll's mouth, though, he was straight. See p.63 of Mapplethorpe: A Biography by Patricia Morrisroe - I don't know if this link will work, but: [3] -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 20:55, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

I've read "Mapplethorpe: A Biography" by Patricia Morrisroe and all that quote by Carroll does is just shows how he is a closeted bisexual. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.59.42.125 (talk) 21:12, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Jim Carroll was bisexual all the quote from the Mapplethorpe bio shows is that he's rather closeted about his sexuality and a whore since he was still into sex for pay then in the early 70s.

Why isn't Jim Carroll listed as being bisexual? It is a well known fact that he is bisexual and even people close to him have confirmed this biological fact. http://www.warholstars.org/andywarhol_0909.html

It isn't a "well know fact." It's a claim, an allegation devoid of evidence or citation thus does not merit inclusion in an encyclopedic entry of any sort. The "biological fact" comment is just bizarre and baffling. I'm not clear what you meant to communicate there. (Sellpink (talk) 11:46, 25 October 2017 (UTC))

Not clear who is meant by "his brother"

"He was taught by the LaSalle Christian Brothers, and his brother in the sixth grade noted that he could write and encouraged him to do so." Do you mean one of the Christian Brothers, or his sibling? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rosekelleher (talk • contribs) 19:45, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

They mean monks and friars at Roman Catholic schools. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.52.111.173 (talk) 00:57, 2 December 2019 (UTC)