Talk:Jim Gavin (Gaelic footballer)

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Requested move 5 December 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved  — Amakuru (talk) 14:02, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

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Jim Gavin (footballer) → Jim Gavin – Jim Gavin is currently redirected here, although was previously redirected to James Gavin (disambiguation) I have added a hatnote here to account for that. This article is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for the name Jim Gavin and so this article should be located there without any disambiguation parentheses. He is probably the most successful GAA manager in history. Fob.schools (talk) 09:54, 5 December 2019 (UTC)—Relisted. – Ammarpad (talk) 07:07, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose: As the article about him makes very clear, James M. Gavin was called "Jumpin' Jim" and "Slim Jim", so he was clearly known as "Jim Gavin". The footballer is not really more important than the WWII Commanding General and U.S. Ambassador. And the page view history makes it clear that many more readers have been reading about the general than the footballer. The general has been portrayed in films by Robert Ryan in The Longest Day, and by Ryan O'Neal in A Bridge Too Far, both of which are extremely notable award-winning films. "Jim Gavin" should lead to the dab page, not the footballer. The only reason it was a redirect to the footballer was that you changed it (apparently without any prior discussion), and in fact that change was today, and I have reverted it. —BarrelProof (talk) 13:09, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

A couple of points. 1) I mention above that it was previously redirected elsewhere. I am allowed change a redirect. I dont need to discuss it first. I made clear in all edit summaries what I was doing. A Bridge Too Far is one of my favourite films and I know the character you refer to. You are quite entitled to revert it if you want. 2) it seems extremely ‘greedy’ to hold 2 article titles for one article, especially when the second one is redirecting not to James M. Gavin itself but too the dab page. Such an instance can easily be incorporated into a hatnote. Will Smith points to the actor (with a hatnote), whereas William Smith points to the dab page. Additionally a new redirect of Jumpin Jim Gavin could easily be created to point at the General. Fob.schools (talk) 14:47, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

My impression is that usually when someone says something like "such-and-such redirects to so-and-so, although it was previously redirected elsewhere", I tend to think they're talking about a change that happened a year or two ago and was done by someone else, not something that the same person just did themselves seven minutes earlier. I may have overreacted a bit when I discovered otherwise. —BarrelProof (talk) 16:40, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

The second source cited in the James M. Gavin article is entitled "Jim Gavin: The General Who Jumped First", so it is clear he has sometimes been referred to as "Jim Gavin", but most of the sources do seem to use "James" for him. —BarrelProof (talk) 21:00, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

This is what the hatnote could look like in that case. Fob.schools (talk) 08:15, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

I have also created a redirect for Jumpin' Jim Gavin which can remain whatever the outcome here. Fob.schools (talk) 09:58, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

I also created Jumpin' Jim and Jumping Jim yesterday, and tagged them with {{R from nickname}}, and I may create Jumping general and/or The jumping general. —BarrelProof (talk) 18:22, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

• Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 15:06, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose. The redirect from Jim Gavin to James Gavin was not broken. In fact, it was stable for 14 years prior to the day this request was opened. Both of the main articles involved garner significant views. There is no primary topic. Dekimasuよ! 04:55, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.