Talk:Jim Ratcliffe
Latest comment: 9 months ago by Martinevans123 in topic Failsworth not in Lancashire
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Garden tractors
editThe Times seemed to think skiing and tractors worthy of inclusion in a biography. However, though I can't find a guideline at Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies), it doesn't seem to belong here. What do you think? --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 09:52, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
"In 2006 Ineos bought BP's refining and petrochemical arm, which brought the Grangemouth Refinery into Ineos' control." Ineos bought the former BP Chemicals business "Innovene", this had nothing to do with refining. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.168.58.5 (talk) 23:32, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
Failsworth not in Lancashire
editAn IP is repeatedly changing the infobox to state that Failsworth is in Lancashire, as here.[1] They make a good point in their second edit that it was in Lancashire at the time of Ratcliffe's birth, which I attempted to acknowledge but this has also been reverted out so that the page is now anachronistic. Per WP:UKCOUNTIES,
Editors must be mindful of fostering and/or introducing anachronism into former county articles. Use language that asserts past tense - We do not take the minority view that the historic counties still exist with the former boundaries.
Perhaps that is not what the IP intends, but it is the effect of stating in the infobox that Failsworth is in Lancashire. Please do not re-assert this challenged edit without an editor consensus per WP:ONUS, which states:
The responsibility for achieving consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content.
Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 09:54, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- So you say "we cannot allow anachronism in there." But it's a simple fact. Was George Romney born in Cumbria? Was L. S. Lowry born in Greater Manchester? If we follow your logic, any counties of birth before 1974 will be "anachronisms". Ratcliffe was born on 1952 - fact. Ratcliffe was born in Failsworth - fact. In 1952 Failsworth was in Lancashire -fact. These are the facts. It's pretty simple. 86.187.162.116 (talk) 10:54, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Which I placed in the main body, but you reverted that out. The infobox now says Failsworth is in Lancashire. This is not a fact, it is anachronistic. Per WP:UKTOWNS and WP:UKCOUNTIES, we don’t do this on Wikipedia. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 11:12, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Ok. So go ahead and change Lowry's infobox to Greater Manchester and Romney's infobox to Cumbria, and see how long that lasts. The infobox and article text should be consistent. Ratcliffe was born in Lancashire. That's a simple fact. You will find he's in Category:People from Lancashire (before 1974). 86.187.162.116 (talk) 11:40, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- It is not a good idea on Wikipedia to say what about page x or y, because not all pages conform to policy, and if I did as you suggest, I would be taking an edit dispute on one page to another, which is generally unwelcome. Yet I note that Encyclopaedia Britannica does indeed list Lowry's birth place as within Manchester.[2] I am not even sure what you are saying about Romney's as that infobox says Cumbria already, and my knowledge of Kendall mint cake does not go much farther than consumption of the product. I have cited policy above, and I have also surveyed other pages where the county at the time of birth was different from the current county. I note that the most common solution is simply to omit the county from the infobox, so I have thus removed it. As for your latest edit, as that explains the matter on the lines of my edit that you reverted, I clearly have no objection to that. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 14:40, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Dear Sirfurboy. George Romney was born in Dalton-in-Furness, Lancashire, England, in 1734. That's what his infobox says. Cumbria did not exist for another 140 years. So what on earth do you mean saying "that infobox says Cumbria already"?? This article for Ratcliffe conforms to policy when the infobox says Lancashire. Because that's where Failsworth was in 1952, That is a simple historical fact. We certainly never have to copy anything in Encyclopaedia Britannica, or follow whatever style guide they might employ. It's irrelevant. Category:People from Lancashire (before 1974) is wholly correct for Ratcliffe, because that's where he was born. So please stop deleting useful factual information. Thanks. 86.187.172.154 (talk) 15:04, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- In answer to your question: Romney's. I have nothing to say on anything else you say as you will clearly keep reverting in your preferred text, despite my 2 attempts at a compromise, regardless. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 16:05, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- What a very bizarre answer. You've lost me there, I'm afraid. Your answer seems to evade all logic. Kendal Mint Cake is not a person and was never "born". But yes, it now originates from Kendal in Cumbria. When it was accidentally invented in 1869, Kendal was in Westmorland. But the infobox does not need to say that. Why does Failsworth, Lancashire need any "compromise"? In 1952 that's the county that Failsworth was in. I also see you have now started with the same antics over over at Kirsty MacColl here, removing Surrey from both infobox and text. MacColl was born in Surrey. That's a simple fact. You need to stop. 86.187.169.130 (talk) 16:31, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you for your latest edits, which I confirm are in line with my thoughts. Regarding Romney's, you said
... and Romney's infobox
without wikilinking or using a full name. As a mountain walker, I immediately thought of one particular Romney's of Cumbria. Such are the ambiguities of language. 10:11, 1 June 2023 (UTC) Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 10:11, 1 June 2023 (UTC)- Thank you. I had linked my first use of George Romney and had hoped you had seen it. Such are the niceties of Wikipedia linking style. There are, of course, countless other examples, across the encyclopaedia, where historic counties have now changed. 86.187.231.12 (talk) 10:46, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you for your latest edits, which I confirm are in line with my thoughts. Regarding Romney's, you said
- What a very bizarre answer. You've lost me there, I'm afraid. Your answer seems to evade all logic. Kendal Mint Cake is not a person and was never "born". But yes, it now originates from Kendal in Cumbria. When it was accidentally invented in 1869, Kendal was in Westmorland. But the infobox does not need to say that. Why does Failsworth, Lancashire need any "compromise"? In 1952 that's the county that Failsworth was in. I also see you have now started with the same antics over over at Kirsty MacColl here, removing Surrey from both infobox and text. MacColl was born in Surrey. That's a simple fact. You need to stop. 86.187.169.130 (talk) 16:31, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- In answer to your question: Romney's. I have nothing to say on anything else you say as you will clearly keep reverting in your preferred text, despite my 2 attempts at a compromise, regardless. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 16:05, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Dear Sirfurboy. George Romney was born in Dalton-in-Furness, Lancashire, England, in 1734. That's what his infobox says. Cumbria did not exist for another 140 years. So what on earth do you mean saying "that infobox says Cumbria already"?? This article for Ratcliffe conforms to policy when the infobox says Lancashire. Because that's where Failsworth was in 1952, That is a simple historical fact. We certainly never have to copy anything in Encyclopaedia Britannica, or follow whatever style guide they might employ. It's irrelevant. Category:People from Lancashire (before 1974) is wholly correct for Ratcliffe, because that's where he was born. So please stop deleting useful factual information. Thanks. 86.187.172.154 (talk) 15:04, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- It is not a good idea on Wikipedia to say what about page x or y, because not all pages conform to policy, and if I did as you suggest, I would be taking an edit dispute on one page to another, which is generally unwelcome. Yet I note that Encyclopaedia Britannica does indeed list Lowry's birth place as within Manchester.[2] I am not even sure what you are saying about Romney's as that infobox says Cumbria already, and my knowledge of Kendall mint cake does not go much farther than consumption of the product. I have cited policy above, and I have also surveyed other pages where the county at the time of birth was different from the current county. I note that the most common solution is simply to omit the county from the infobox, so I have thus removed it. As for your latest edit, as that explains the matter on the lines of my edit that you reverted, I clearly have no objection to that. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 14:40, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Ok. So go ahead and change Lowry's infobox to Greater Manchester and Romney's infobox to Cumbria, and see how long that lasts. The infobox and article text should be consistent. Ratcliffe was born in Lancashire. That's a simple fact. You will find he's in Category:People from Lancashire (before 1974). 86.187.162.116 (talk) 11:40, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Which I placed in the main body, but you reverted that out. The infobox now says Failsworth is in Lancashire. This is not a fact, it is anachronistic. Per WP:UKTOWNS and WP:UKCOUNTIES, we don’t do this on Wikipedia. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 11:12, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Although Failsworth and Hull / Beverley are areas which are of significant importance to the article concerning boundary designations there is a fundamental error regarding the location of birth which is Beech Mount Maternity Home in Harpurhey, definitely in Manchester not Failsworth. Marriott7 (talk) 10:58, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Marriott7, do you have any source(s) to support your claim? Thanks. Note: FreeBMD just has Manchester. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:17, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
Chelsea season ticket holder
editHe was a Chelsea season ticket holder. Something he discussed very very openly on a interview. Why no mention about that 86.177.231.86 (talk) 17:39, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
- What is the relevance? He tried to buy Chelsea (which is discussed), and so it is hardly surprising he had a season ticket ahead of this, but does any secondary source discuss his Chelsea fandom? That is what we would need to show it is significant. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 18:28, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
Pre-INEOS career
editThis article does not detail his significant career before his time at INEOS, and needs expanding with appropriate sourcing. LobsterD (talk) 00:21, 3 January 2024 (UTC)