Talk:Jimmy Choo (fashion house)/Archive 1

Archive 1

The Merging of Mr Jimmy Choo and Jimmy Choo Ltd

This is not a good idea, as suggested, the reason being that the company Jimmy Choo Ltd really does not have anything to do with the person Mr Jimmy Choo, (except for their shared names), and never really did. The company is the creation of Tamara Mellon and Sandra Choi, they just used Jimmy Choo's name. Although he was involved in the business at the start, he was bought out in 2001, and sold a licence by Jimmy Choo Ltd to continue producing his one off couture shoes bearing that name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Al 134 (talk • contribs) 09:22, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

The company is not a creation of those two. Jimmy Choo began the corporation and Sandra Choi helped a lot. Jimmy Choo was the main creative mind behind the initial start of the company and still remains so today. It is similar to kate spade. I think that JImmy Choo's biography can be integrated as most of his accomplishments deal with the company. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sarasote (talk • contribs) 06:56, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Crucial updates to Jimmy Choo Ltd

I would like to suggest that the following changes/additions are made to this article page.

1. The name of the article changed from 'Jimmy Choo Ltd' to 'J. Choo Limited, a.k.a. Jimmy Choo', see reasons here [1].

2. Tamara Mellon OBE's title changed to 'Founder and Chief Creative Officer'. [2]

3. Jimmy Choo is a global luxury accessory brand; designing and creating women's shoes, handbags, small leather goods, scarves, sunglasses, eyewear, perfume and men's shoes. [3].

4. Jimmy Choo has over 115 stores worldwide in 32 countries.

5. Jimmy Choo products have recently been seen on the Duchess of Cambridge, Zara Phillips and Michelle Obama. They are also a popular choice for the celebs of the red carpet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by VictoriaJC (talk • contribs) 14:34, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

We have to be careful about using the phrase Jimmy Choo though; that is a person, not just the brand and differentiation is necessary. It would also mean that the companies stores are not mistaken as being owned by Mr Choo.

Replies to your suggestions in order:

1. If the name is changed, it would probably be to "J. Choo Ltd." - the aka part would be in the body of the text, not in the article title. We would also have to show that the company was called that from day one. So far I cannot find anything to that effect.
2. To include the title "Founder and..." could be seen as misleading, as it implies that Choo was not a founder. I would suggest that it is better to write that in prose (one option from the brackets): Mellon and Choo were the initial founders of the company. Though Choo has not been part of the business since 2001, Mellon remains in the (role/position) of "Founder and Chief Creative Officer".(ref as given) plus there is this mention in Vogue, where she is quoted as co-founder (16 May 2011),
3. Agreed, that should be mentioned. The "luxury accessory brand" should be quoted though. A reference should be found/provided: The Jimmy Choo brand is a global "luxury accessory brand", the company designs and creates women's shoes, handbags, small leather goods, scarves, sunglasses, eye-wear and perfume. The company also produces men's shoes.
4. Should be added before the "... including:"
5. More in the style of: The companies products are regularly seen being worn by people such as: HRH Duchess of Cambridge, Zara Phillips and Michelle Obama.

As I said above, care must be taken to differentiate - This is to avoid confusion of the readers, as well as to prevent trademark and copyright problems. The "luxury accessory brand" should be quoted as it is not really possible to have an accessory to luxury. As far as I can tell it is a phrase-in-common-use though, but not a description - the luxury status being market driven rather than being absolute (as opposed to accessory and brand which are absolute), thus the quotes. Chaosdruid (talk) 17:46, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Agreed to your points above. I will try and find you a quote for the fourth point.

Would it be appropriate to update the Tamara Mellon page at the same time in order to remove the warnings already on the page and to bring it in line with the the J.Choo Ltd page?

The company was orginally called J. Choo (Jersey) Ltd for tax reasons, however, J. Choo Ltd has now become the operational company.

VictoriaJC (talk) 15:15, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately my searches through Company House records shows that J. Choo (Jersey) Ltd. was not started until 2005, whereas J. Choo Limited was started in April 2006.

Yes, but I would suggest that we get this article in order first before tackling Jimmy Choo, Tamara Mellon and Sandra Choi, there is also a need for Jimmy Choo Couture Limited (or a redirect from it)

Redirects to J. Choo Limited from Jimmy Choo (brand), Jimmy Choo Limited, Jimmy Choo Ltd, and J. Choo Ltd will also need to be made.

I have included the product range, but do not have a reference as yet for the perfumes.

I have also expanded the article somewhat

I hope that we can make sure all the details are correct. There are some points that could do with clarifying, such as dates of takeovers, and whether or not the problems with the two ownership issues warrant inclusion. I feel that the one with Mellon's mother does, as perhaps the one with the other gentleman does, but any mention of the dealings with her ex-husband should not be included.

I also propose that the page should be moved to J. Choo Limited, though that should be discussed some more (for more editors to be involved). Chaosdruid (talk) 21:11, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Maybe reference can be made to the fact that Jimmy Choo (the company) has won many awards for its contributions to fashion. For example, it was awarded the 'Brand of the Year' Award by the British Fashion Council in 2008 [4]. Other examples include:the 2008 ACE Designer Brand of the Year award, the 2008 'Footwear News' Brand of the Year award and the 2009 Nordstrom 'Partners in Excellence' award [5].

you can also find details of the takeovers in the last reference.

Link for perfume launch [6]

I think that references to Tamara's relationship with her mother should be kept to her own article page, rather than on this one.

I agree that the page should be moved to J.Choo Limited. How do we get more editors involved? VictoriaJC (talk) 10:34, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

How do I upload images? I have some pictures which have been cleared for use, but am unsure how to get them in a place for you to use? VictoriaJC (talk) 16:16, 10 August 2011 (UTC) (replied on your talk page)

I have added some notes on your talk page about the picture upload process

• Awards section added
• Takeovers expanded
• "This article is about ..." modified from "shoe company" -> "Jimmy Choo brand and company"
• Perfume un-hidden and ref added
• See also section added

I think that is it for now, but this discussion about including the disagreement between Mellon and her mother seems to be still causing consternation. The basic issue is "Did it concern the company" - if the answer is yes, then a small mention of it is appropriate here, and a more in depth one on the Tamara Mellon article.

The page move does not really need discussion too much, as it is evidently an incorrect title. I am more concerned about whether it should be renamed to "J. Choo Limited" or "Jimmy Choo (brand)". That is something that can be thrashed out in a Move Proposal process that can be started once we feel it is ready for moving. There are options, of course: We can easily create redirect pages from "Jimmy Choo brand" and "Jimmy Choo accessories" etc.

If there is anything that we have missed, feel free to add them. Personally I would like to see a series of pictures that illustrate the brands though time, as well as some that illustrate specific shoes (such as Diana's), and some of those from the red carpet ones in the early days. These can easily be combined into a montage with a description to show which is what. Chaosdruid (talk) 22:38, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

the disagreement between Mellon and her mother did not affect the company. It was, like the reports say, a fall out over the misappropriation of some of the shares by Mellon's mother. It was more of a personal inheritance issue rather than over the management of the company.

My personal choice would be for the page to be called Jimmy Choo (brand) as that is what most people would search for. People may be confused about being directed to a site called J.Choo Limited, the link might not immediately obvious. When would you feel that the site is ready to be moved?

The feeling about the pictures was that the one currently on there is an old design. I would ideally like some pictures on there reflecting the new 24/7 collection, as well as pictures of the mens collection and the perfume bottle, so people can see the range of products that Jimmy Choo (brand) creates. Feel free to have a look on the jimmychoo.com website (particuarly 'Choo Connection') and see if there are any pictures there you would like to use. I can then arrange for them to be uploaded with the correct copyright details.

A picture of Diana's shoes would be better on Mr Jimmy Choo's page as they were designed before Tamara and Choo created J. Choo Limited. Having those shoes linked to J. Choo Limited could be misleading. However, we could put some iconic pictures on, for example, the shoes featured in Sex and the City and some of the shoes worn on the red carpet and by other celebrities/famous people.

The montage sounds like a brilliant idea. Let me know what I can do to help.

This page is looking so much better and more like the complete picture that we wanted it to be. Thank you for all your help so far.

VictoriaJC (talk) 15:26, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Outlets

There are three types of outlets:

• Stores
• Boutiques
• Second party outlets - departments stores etc.

For example, the shoes are available through Neiman Marcus in the U.S. and Harrods, neither are JC stores and so are outlets. As the term outlet covers all three it should be left as is - if in doubt read Oxford Dictionary: Outlet and Oxford Dictionary: Boutique Chaosdruid (talk) 20:05, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

(I should mention up front that I work for Jimmy Choo, so I'm not impartial!) Apologies, I just waded in and edited the page before registering, so I wasn't aware of this discussion. The word outlet is used in the industry specifically to mean where old stock gets cleared at a discount. So the use of the term outlet, while correct in the dictionary sense, creates the wrong impression in many readers that the company sells most of its products through discount outlets. Second party outlets are generally referred to as either "wholesale" or "multibrand", depending upon who you're talking about. Again, the word outlet is not quite right for them. JChoo (talk) 17:19, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

2014 Updates

Hi there, I'm planning to do some updating of the page in the coming weeks, as most of the information is quite old and we (J Choo Limited) would like to update pictures etc. As you may have noticed, I've already made a few small changes. If there's anyone still monitoring this page, please let me know and I'd be happy to discuss. JChoo (talk) 17:39, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

Hi, JChoo! Thanks for being open with your association with Jimmy Choo *and* for taking this to the Talk page! This is absolutely the best place for a conversation about updates to the Jimmy Choo page. As you have a conflict of interest (COI), you should probably not be editing articles about yourself or your company. Instead of editing the article, do as you've done here and post in the Talk page the information that seems outdated, any new information (with reliable, third-party, published sources) and, if that information fits with Wikipedia's policies, an editor may make those changes to the article.

You've mentioned photos. Please read over Wikipedia:Image use policy, especially the Copyright and licensing section before uploading photos you'd like an editor to add. Thanks again for being honest about your affiliation with Jimmy Choo and bringing the conversation to the Talk page! Stesmo (talk) 18:14, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

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