Talk:João Mário (footballer, born January 1993)

Requested move 11 June 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move as proposed. The consensus is that the current titles are less informative than using nationalities. A good point has been raised about the demonym for Guinea-Bissau. This is probably worth a more comprehensive discussion, as both "Guinea-Bissauan" and "Bissaua-Guinean" are used on Wikipedia and in sources. I'll go ahead with the proposed version for now; if it's decided that the other is preferable here and elsewhere, we can move the article again. Cúchullain ^t/c 20:57, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

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• João Mário (footballer, born January 1993) → João Mário (Portuguese footballer)
• João Mário (footballer, born October 1993) → João Mário (Guinea-Bissauan footballer)

– Wikipedia:Naming conventions (sportspeople)#Association football .28soccer.29. Relisted. Joeykai (talk) 09:11, 2 July 2015 (UTC) Relisted. Jenks24 (talk) 15:52, 22 June 2015 (UTC) Joeykai (talk) 20:49, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Support. SLBedit (talk) 21:10, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Do it, it's a non controversial move,--Threeohsix (talk) 21:39, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Threeohsix, I was not sure if it should be (Guinea-Bissauan footballer) or (Bissau-Guinean footballer)Joeykai (talk) 21:50, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Guinea-Bissauan footballer--Threeohsix (talk) 22:06, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (sportspeople)#Association football .28soccer.29 per 2a - If the footballers were born in different years, use the year they were born. This would over-ride the criteria in point 1 ("1.When there are multiple people with the same name, and one of them is a footballer") (my bolding). Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 06:45, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Lugnuts, They were born in the same yearJoeykai (talk) 07:11, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

TBH I didn't spot that, haha! Are they fine with extra month disambig and just redirect the country disambigs to the current names? Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 11:44, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

• Support That language should be revisited—namely, the criteria should be swapped. Years make poor disambiguators: as WP:NCPDAB puts it, "readers are more likely to be seeking this information than to already know it". When occupation alone isn't enough to disambiguate, we almost always go to nationality, and this should be the case with football too. Sure, footballers' nationalities can be a bit squishy, and when they are, we can resort to years if we have to. But both of these two have senior caps for the Portuguese and Guinea-Bissauan teams, so their nationality is set under FIFA rules. Realistically, we'd only need to revisit this if one of the two moved to the other country and became notable for something else—e.g., the Guinea-Bissauan becomes a Portuguese citizen and goes into politics. But there's no need to try to guess at that sort of thing, per WP:CRYSTAL. --BDD (talk) 15:49, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. --BDD (talk) 15:49, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

• Furthermore, years are much more effective for disambiguation when there's a significant difference. For example, Andy Aitken (footballer, born 1978) versus Andy Aitken (footballer, born 1877) is fairly informative. You can probably guess, between those titles, which one you're looking for. But this gets much more difficult even when we're talking the same decade, let alone the same year. The biggest fans of either João Mários' clubs are pretty unlikely to know the month of his birth, if even the year. If we must keep the current policy for disambiguating footballers, so be it, but I urge us to put readers first, to use common sense, and recognize that at least in some cases, it's not helpful. --BDD (talk) 15:54, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
• Oops. I read that language too quickly. It says use the most conclusive of the following steps and does not prescribe 2a over 2b necessarily. For the reasons I mentioned above, I would favor making 2b the first go-to step, but the language is sensible as is. --BDD (talk) 15:59, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
• Support (kind of) per BDD, but am hung up on the demonym of the one from Guinea-Bissau. Per Guinea-Bissau, the correct demonyn is "Bissau-Guinean". Therefore, the second one should be João Mário (Bissau-Guinean footballer). Tavix | Talk  22:27, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Ugh. We have Category:Guinea-Bissauan people, with that formulation seemingly consistent through its subcats. But there's also Emílio da Silva (Bissau-Guinean footballer). --BDD (talk) 13:34, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose - at WT:FOOTY the preference has always been to disambiguate by DOB rather than nationality (as the latter can change in football); further compounded by the fact there is confusion over the correct demonym. GiantSnowman 14:39, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Did you see that they were born in the same year?Joeykai (talk) 14:51, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

• Reslisting comment. There's a clear consensus to disambiguate by nationality, but we still need to decide between "Guinea-Bissauan" and "Bissau-Guinean". Jenks24 (talk) 15:52, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
• Support - greetings all. Just stopping by having seen this on the Requested Moves noticeboard. I believe the move is the simplest solution since both athletes have the same birth year. Distinguishing by nationality will eliminate any confusion a reader would have. DaltonCastle (talk) 00:14, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

@DaltonCastle: Look at the relisting comment above. We've already established consensus to disambiguate by nationality, but the current question is whether "Guinea-Bissauan" or "Bissau-Guinean" is the correct demonym to use. -- Tavix ^(talk) 17:21, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. But isnt the nation Guinea-Bissau? And shouldnt the people from there be called Guinea-Bissauan? DaltonCastle (talk) 17:33, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Yes, it is Guinea-Bissau. According to that article, the demonym is "Bissau-Guinean" and the source is here. We have article that uses that demonym (ex: Emílio da Silva (Bissau-Guinean footballer) However, it's tricky because we have a lot of pages named "Guinea-Bissaun" (for example: Category:Guinea-Bissauan people -- Tavix ^(talk) 17:59, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 8 March 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus. Don't see any general agreement to make these changes. As is usual with no-consensus outcomes, editors can strengthen their args and make another attempt in a few months to garner consensus for these renames. Kudos to editors for your input, and Happy Publishing! (nac by page mover) Paine Ellsworth, ed.  ^put'r there  21:19, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

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• João Mário (Portuguese footballer) → João Mário
• João Mário → João Mário (disambiguation)

– João Mário (Portuguese footballer) is far and away the most popular page in terms of views, with 57 times more views than the next most popular Joao Mario. Also, his nationality isn't a good enough distinguisher because there are 2 other Portuguese footballers who use the same name - João Mário (footballer, born 1966) and João Mário (footballer, born 2000) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ortizesp (talk • contribs) 03:51, 9 March 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. SITH (talk) 15:27, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

• Convincing case; support. Frenchmalawi (talk) 17:28, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose. The Portuguese footballer born in 1993 may be the most popular entry on the João Mário disambiguation page, but the burden for becoming a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC should be set at a higher level and, in terms of his notability in the English-speaking world and the wider international arena, he is not yet a household name. Since there are three Portuguese footballers named João Mário, the main title headers of their entries should be indicated as João Mário (Portuguese footballer, born 1966), João Mário (Portuguese footballer, born 1993) and João Mário (Portuguese footballer, born 2000). The fourth footballer named João Mário, João Mário (Bissau-Guinean footballer), can remain as is. An unlikely possibility is to set aside WP:COMMONNAME and indicate the main headers of all four footballer articles with full names João Mário Ferreira Oliveira [born 1966], João Mário Naval da Costa Eduardo [born January 1993], João Mário Nunes Fernandes [born October 1993] and João Mário Neto Lopes [born 2000]. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 17:31, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

For my own reference, what is your reference for becoming PRIMARYTOPIC? Incoming links, and total google results is an order of magnitude higher for João Mário (Portuguese footballer) than the other João Mário's combined.--Ortizesp (talk) 16:54, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

• Support, clear primary topic. I don't agree with anything in the above comment. —Xezbeth (talk) 16:35, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. GiantSnowman 12:12, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose - no clear PRIMARYTOPIC. GiantSnowman 12:17, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose I just don't like this kind of moving from disambiguation to "claiming primary topic". Ronaldo (Brazilian footballer) was the holder of Ronaldo and turn out it is a right move to current title and leave Ronaldo as an article for the given name (instead of redirect). João Mário just don't even at C. Ronaldo level . Matthew hk (talk) 17:16, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
• Support The pageview gap is just too massive to ignore. It is very unlikely that someone searching for "João Mário" is intending to find information about any of the other footballers. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 09:25, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Er

Update for Inter Milan career please Rabinhos221 (talk) 18:59, 10 April 2019 (UTC)Rabby