Talk:Joe Rice

Good Article Review

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): pass b (MoS): fail

Comment: Private life is scattered around various unrelated sections, ie we learn about his place of birth under Military career, and wife & family and education under private sector career. A "personal life" section or similar is justified.

 Done -- Sethant (talk) 01:50, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): pass b (citations to reliable sources): pass c (OR): pass

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): fail b (focused): pass

Comment: We learn very little about Joe Rice the man. Many basic biographical details are absent, ie. parents names, occupations, schools, date of marriage, children's YOB, hobbies, interests, sports etc. These details may be difficult to come across, but at least some of them were in sources quoted. Maybe his campaign committee has a more detailed written biography. Also how did he become an army officer, I'm pretty sure he wasn't commissioned upon entering at the age of 17. Also I would like to know where he stands on some issues as a politician, his legislative record quoted is fairly bland and does not indicate if he is regarded as a progressive or conservative, for instance. One of the websites referenced had ratings from various interest groups, that sort of information would be useful. He is notable because he is a politician. I understand that some of this sort of information may be hard to come by, but I would like to see evidence that editors have "gone the extra yard" to find it.

Some of the information isn't really available. I've looked for, but have been unable to find: parents names, primary and secondary schools. Included in the article are his occupations, approximate date of marriage, approximate children's YOB, hobbies.

Some of Rice's political orientation is revealed from his legislative agenda (support of the death penalty, tax cuts, and transportation spending paints a picture of a moderate-to-conservative Democrat). However, I've added a section with some of the information you describe (impressions of his political orientation and the interest group ratings I can find; there aren't many), and have also referenced some of his campaign endorsements. -- Sethant (talk) 03:38, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

2. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias: pass

3. It is stable.

   No edit wars etc.: pass

4. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): pass b (appropriate use with suitable captions): pass

5. Overall:

   Pass/Fail: on hold

Sorry I've had to pull back from this process. Hope you find another reviewer, and my comments helpful. --Michael Johnson (talk) 04:18, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

My GA Review

Lead

"A business consultant, Rice is also a U.S. Army veteran and a lieutenant colonel in the Army Reserve who has served during peacekeeping operations in Bosnia."

Say "Rice is a business consultatnt, a US Army veteran" etc.

 Done--Sethant (talk) 01:50, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

"Rice was elected to the city council of Glendale, Colorado in 1994 and to the post of mayor in 1996 on a platform of developing a "resident-friendly" community in the Denver enclave."

Define "platform".

 Done I've clarified "platform" with a wikilink.--Sethant (talk) 01:50, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

"Re-elected in 2000, Rice resigned from the post of mayor in 2003 when called up to serve the first of three tours on active duty in Iraq."

Try putting the subject first and then "re-elected in 2000".

 Done--Sethant (talk) 01:50, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Biography

Military Career

"...and his current tour, where from October 2007 to January 2008, where, as an operations analyst, he evaluated Iraqi military and police forces."

Double use of "where".

 Done Fixed.--Sethant (talk) 01:50, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

"Airborne and Ranger qualified, Rice has received the Combat Action Badge, the Expert Infantryman’s Badge, and the Bronze Star."

Again, put the subject first and then the phrase. And what does "Airborne and Ranger qualified" mea?n ("Airborne" leads to a disambig page that does not seem to have anything related to the military)

 Done I've clarified Airborne and Ranger training both by rephrasing the sentence and by providing appropriate wikilinks.--Sethant (talk) 01:50, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

"The partnership brought several delegations of Iraqis including business leaders, government officials, and scholars. "

Put a comma after "Iraqis".

 Done--Sethant (talk) 01:50, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Private sector career

"Rice earned an associates degree from New Mexico Military Institute in 1987, a bachelor's degree in history from Metropolitan State College of Denver in 1989, while an active-duty officer."

Put a conjunction after "1987". And eliminate the comma after "1989".

 Done--Sethant (talk) 01:50, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

"Rice is married; he and his wife, Kendall, have three children — twins Harrison and Alexandria, and a younger son, Dalton."

Maybe eliminate the semicolon and put a conjunction instead, to improve the flow.

 Done Rephrased.--Sethant (talk) 01:50, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Mayor of Glendale

"Running for re-election, Rice faced opposition from Tea Party member Mike Dunafon in a race that saw uncharacteristically negative campaigning for Glendale, including accusations that Rice used racial slurs and denigrated African-American and Mexican citizens."

"Uncharacteristically negative" is POV.

 Done Removed. -- Sethant (talk) 01:50, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

--Sethant (talk) 01:50, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Legislative career

2006 election

"Republican Joe Stengel was term-limited in 2006 and could not stand for re-election; both Rice and Republican Matt Dunn sought the seat."

The seat of what?

 Done Stengel's legislative seat. I've tried to clarify the language.-- Sethant (talk) 01:50, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

"Retiring Rep. Stengel resigned shortly before the end of his term because of newly enacted ethics laws; a Republican Party vacancy committee appointed Dunn, to the remaining month of Stengel's turn."

Is this part about Dunn really necessary?

 Done Strictly speaking, no, although it does explain why Dunn precedes Joe Rice in the infobox instead of Stengel. Removed, though. -- Sethant (talk) 01:50, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

2007 legislative session

I think you should convert the bullet list to just a paragraph.

 Done--Sethant (talk) 01:50, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Also, the table really throws everything out of wack. You could maybe spin it off into a seperate article and then link to it from the main article.

 Done--Sethant (talk) 01:50, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

And take a look at the above comments. They are true as well.Maybe more to come, but this is all for now. Noble Story (talk) 11:53, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Lead

"Rice is a business consultant and a U.S. Army Reservist who has served during peacekeeping operations in Bosnia."

Say "...Reservist, and he has served..." Or, try "...consultant, and he has served as a U.S. Army Reservist during..."

I've dropped the Bosnia reference; after a number of attempts at rephrasing, I just can't get it to parse well. It's also a minor bit in the article that doesn't have to go in the lead, and I'm fine with that. -- Sethant (talk) 04:01, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Biography

"Rice and his wife, Kendall, were married around 1990, and have three children — twins Harrison and Alexandria, born around 2001, and a younger son, Dalton, born in 2005."

Why "around 1990...around 2001"? Are you not sure?

Yes, I'm not sure. Perfect, precise information isn't always available. The references only indicate his children's ages and the length of his marriage, not the actual years of marriage and birth. -- Sethant (talk) 04:01, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

"Among his hobbies, Rice enjoys jogging."

A little trivial, maybe?

A previous reviewer requested information about his hobbies. There's very little information about that, and that's what I can find. -- Sethant (talk) 04:01, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

"Presently a lieutenant colonel in the United States Army Reserve..."

You just said that in the above paragraph. Redundant.

Redundancy eliminated. -- Sethant (talk) 04:01, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Legislative career

Something still needs to be done with the table. And, the "Political positions" could probably be expanded. Mention the views he took during his political terms (you mention some in the lead).

Political positions taken the 2007 and 2008 legislative sessions are expressed both in those section and in the table of sponsored legislation. To mention them again would be redundant, and I feel they give a good snapshot of of Rice's political priorities and positions (expanding the death penalty, transportation funding, business tax cuts) I agree, though, that the "political positions" section feels short. I could fairly easily merge it in with the other legislative sections, though.

I've gone ahead and merged the "political positions" section in with others. - Sethant (talk) 05:35, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Also, can you be more specific about the table? "Something needs to be done" is not a very helpful critique, and doesn't give me any guidance to work with.-- Sethant (talk) 04:01, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

See my above comments: "Also, the table really throws everything out of wack. You could maybe spin it off into a separate article and then link to it from the main article."

I've shortened the table, moved it down, and lengthened the section beside it; I think it looks better now. There isn't enough independent information about all the legislation he worked on to justify an entire independent article. -- Sethant (talk) 05:32, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Noble Story (talk) 03:34, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Final GA Review

Review of Joe Rice

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality:

   B. MoS compliance:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. References to sources:

   B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

   B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

After going over it, I think this is now a satisfactory Good Article. Congratulations. Noble Story (talk) 06:15, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Dismas House

I am curious about how the 'founder' of Dismas House is listed as Bob Sylvester. Somehow the info here makes it appear that Dismas House is and was founded by this felon, when in fact Dismas House founder was Father Charles “Dismas” Clark in 1959. I am considering opening an article on Dismas House, since this was the forebearer of the modern halway houses used today. Just hate to see the misconception and the slandererous writing about Dismas House within this article. Anyone else open to re-writing the way we are seeing Dismas House portrayed and/or assisting in the writing of a Dismas House article? Give me a shout Brattysoul (talk) 16:37, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

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GA concerns

Reviewing this article for the new GA sweeps initiative. Most of the information post-dating 2009 in the article is uncited. This is material that is required to contain citations for GA status to remain per the GA criteria (which have been semi-recently updated). This is doubly concerning, as this article is a biography of a living person. A WP:GAR may be necessary if the citation issues are not resolved. Hog Farm _Talk 14:37, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

GA Reassessment

Joe Rice

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch • Watch article reassessment page • GAN review not found

Result: Delisted. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:16, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Information about later life (everything post-2010) uncited. Z1720 (talk) 20:07, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi, I believe I could get this done. What is your expected timeline for this? Matarisvan (talk) 07:40, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi Matarisvan do you still intend to work on this? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 10:48, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Z1720 and @AirshipJungleman29, I believe this article is back at GA level. Wdyt, any comments you would like to add? Matarisvan (talk) 14:00, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

@Matarisvan: Thoughts below after a quick scan:

• Any images of Rice? If he was an elected official, there should be a portrait somewhere that can be added.
• Any additional information post-2010 about his life? Has he been involved with anything?
• There is an uncited statement at the end of a paragraph.

Those are my thoughts. Z1720 (talk) 14:38, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Z1720, I'm out of town for a week and don't have access to my computer. Is it ok if we wrap this up after I return, let's say on the 22nd or 23rd? Matarisvan (talk) 14:30, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Yep, I'm fine with that. I might add a more thorough review below so that it can be declared "Keep" sooner. Z1720 (talk) 22:56, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Z1720, my responses:

• There are images from the Colorado Business Roundtable and the MSU Denver. However, both websites don't have any mention of copyright status. I think I'll have to upload either picture as non-free fair use.
• Rice's post-2010 life seems to be private. His position at Lockheed Martin Space has been listed here. Other than that, there is nothing notable enough for WP.
• I will try and get that uncited statement fixed.

Matarisvan (talk) 10:32, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Comments from RoySmith

On a quick look, I see Rice and Sonnenberg ultimately combined their efforts and integrated the two bills, both of which became law is uncited, but perhaps that's the same issue Z1720 noted? RoySmith (talk) 14:16, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Feh, fixed ping. RoySmith (talk) 14:17, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi @RoySmith, I'll try to fix the issues you have listed below, perhaps in 2-3 days, if that is ok? Matarisvan (talk) 10:33, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

I (strongly) encourage you to take these as examples of problems and examine the every citation in the article to verify they don't have similar problems. Based on the extent of the issues I found, I am dubious that 2-3 days is all it will take to fix it. RoySmith (talk) 13:32, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi Matarisvan, you still intending to work on this? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:16, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi, I don't think I will be able to, not because of time constraints but because the Colorado newspapers cited here either have dead websites or non searchable archives. I think this was the max I could improve this article without access to the aforementioned newspapers. No issues with me if you delist this one. Matarisvan (talk) 19:02, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Since the sourcing seems to be the major issue here, I'll do a random spot-check:

• Rice and his wife, Dr. Kendall Kershner-Rice, were married in 1990, and have three children — twins born in 2000, and a younger son born in 2005. [7] [8]
  • Partially verified. Neither source says "Kershner-Rice". Neither source says 1990; you can get that from WP:CALC, but only to about +/- 1 year. Neither source says the third child is a son. Also, both sources are 18 years old, so I'd either find something newer to verify they didn't have any more children, or at least throw an {{asof}} in there.
• and received the John V. Christensen Award from the Denver Regional Council of Governments in 2004. In 2003, Rice resigned from his post as mayor during the last year of his second term after being called up to active military duty in Iraq . [23]
  • Unable to verify due to technical reasons. The original site no longer up and the archive.org copies look corrupted (or, more likely, just grabbed after the original was gone). I'd be wary of citing campaign material for stuff like this, so I'd reccommend finding a better source.
• and is a member of the centrist Democratic Leadership Council . [28] [29]
  • Partially verified. 28 says he's a member of the Democratic Leadership Council, but neither source characterizes that group as "centrist". It's also not entirely clear who wrote 28, but based on wording like "Our framework", I'm assuming it was campaign literature, so not the best source. Also, given the age of these sources, a statement like "is a member of" is likely to be outdated, so needs a newer source or at least {{asof}}.
• and by both union groups (including the local chapter of the teachers' union Colorado Education Association , and the Colorado Association of Public Employees, a branch of the Service Employees International Union ) and business interests (including the Colorado Subcontractors Association and the state Chamber of Commerce , the Colorado Association of Commerce and Industry). He was also endorsed by Colorado Conservation Voters and the Colorado Medical Society . [31]
  • Partially verified. As above, this is from his campaign site which no longer exists and the Internet Archive copies are a mess. I found an older archive which verifies most of these endorsements, but not all. I'm a little concerned about how much of this article is cited to campaign material.
• During the 2007 legislative session, Rice sponsored 16 pieces of legislation, including 11 as the primary sponsor in the House of Representatives. Among the most prominent of his bills was a measure to set up a cold case unit within the Colorado Bureau of Investigation [34]
  • Does not verify. The source mentions on bill he sponsored, but the rest isn't there.
• to investigate Colorado's 1200 unsolved homicides. [35]
  • Verified.
• and plans on introducing legislation to make aggravated rape of a child under 12 a capital crime, eligible for the death penalty . [58]
  • Verified.
• Besides chairing the House Business Affairs Committee during the regular legislative session, [69]
  • Verified.
• OK, I've done my part, I'll let Z1720 take it from here. My general impression however is that the sourcing isn't up to WP:GACR standards. A few minor details here or there would be fine, but this is more than that. More fundamentally, I have deep concerns about how much of this is sourced to campaign publicity material. Some of that will be inevitable in an article about a contemporary politician, but this seems like too much. The general tone of the article does not comply with WP:NPOV, extolling minor acomplishments and trivial honors like "his seat was decorated with yellow ribbons, and his children were invited to lead the Pledge of Allegiance".

• Delist per above; I think it's clear this needs further work. Hog Farm _Talk 22:14, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.