Talk:Joe Sakic/Archive 1

Archive 1

"Šakić?"

I don't see the justification for spelling his last name that way. It's not reflective of the overwhelmingly common spelling or pronunciation in his native Canada or just about anywhere else. Aottley 06:50, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree, but given Joe's Croatian lineage, I think the Hrvatska spelling of his surname should remain in the article, along with an IPA rendering of it. My limited understanding of Slavic languages seems to say that his surname is actually pronounced Shak - EEtch (the way North Americans pronounce it, Sack - ick, can't possibly be correct), but since I don't know the IPA well enough to transliterate it, I'll just ask that someone else do it, please. Avalyn 03:56, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

That spelling shouldn't be in the lead section, because it's doubtful that his Canadian documents have it that way. I had put it in the early life section because that's the most likely spelling of the surname of his parents, whose original documents could have had it that way.

As far as the surname itself - the 'ic' at the end is definitely 'ić', the Slavonic patronymic. The S at the beginning could be a S or a Š, but the latter is more likely because the Croatian phone directory (imenik.ht.hr) gives 62 results for Sakić and 489 for Šakić. The ratio is 3:119 for the county where Imotski is. --Joy [shallot] 02:56, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

In regards to having it at all: Unless there is a documented source proving that Sakic's family,, or ancestors, ever spelt it as Šakić, keep it out. I'm not saying that they didn't, and agree that it most likely was spelt Šakić in Croatia, but we need a source to prove it. So until then, don't add it back. Kaiser matias 04:34, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Seems fair enough. Kevlar67 23:20, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

[1] - [2] --necronudist 09:25, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I have been unable to find any credible sources with that spelling of Joe Sakic's name, especially in regards to an official spelling. Jmlk17 04:31, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

He was born in Canada, so I really doubt his name is spelled with Slavic accents. However, if his father was born in former Yugoslavia, surely his is. So we can conclude that originally his name was spelled that way, but now it losts its Slavic accents. --necronudist 20:35, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Just because someone is born in a country whose language does not have the same letters, that does not mean that a name has to lose them. If I would be born in North America or wherever you prefer, I would keep being "Hernández" and not "Hernandez". But I think few people understand this point. Escorpión Canalla 11:50, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I bet many more people actually do understand. But I have yet to meet, nor find anyone who keeps accents from their ancestral homeland beyond a tilde or accent such as you have written. That's not entirely OR, but no NHL site, nor team site uses them. Jmlk17 04:11, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Because they don't have it on their keyboards and they're not going to bother themselves to copy and paste every time they have to write Šakić or other name. You can find lots of Croatian or Serbian websites where they write Joe Šakić (even though he's Canadian), because they do have those accents. There's a lot to talk about this... By the way, in Finnish, German, Dutch, Croatian, Slovenian (etc.) Wikipedias they put the accents. Escorpión Canalla 10:10 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, those Wikipedias do because they commonly use the accents in their everyday language, alphabet, and writing. Jmlk17 10:54, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Not all of them. German, Dutch or Finnish don't have those accents in their languages. But this thing about the names is funny. You can find here in the English Wikipedia Peter Šťastný, but his son is Paul Stastny. I don't get it. Escorpión Canalla 11:35 19 January 2008 (UTC)

They're not all accents! Š is its own letter different than "S." It would be almost like calling "John" "Kohn", "J" and "K" are different letters. Just because they look similar or even sound similar doesn't change the difference. EZC195 24 January 2008. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ezc 195 (talk • contribs) 11:41, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

This is ROFL: http://sk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Steven_%C5%A0aki%C4%87 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.47.34.86 (talk) 15:03, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Those characters can not be on his official papers because Canada does not recognize them. So even if his parents wanted it spelt like that, they would have no choice but to spell it Sakic. EZC —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.250.153.138 (talk) 12:24, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm all for diacritics, special characters, whatever when it makes sense. Sakic was born in Canada and lived in Canada all his life. There is no mention of his name being Šakic anywhere. Probably there is no Š in his legal papers, so... Look at what other wikipedias do: lv:Džo Sakiks.--Serte ^{[ Talk · Contrib ]} 15:14, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

inconsistency of birthplace

isn't there some way to make this conflicting information more coherent? between the lines of text and the tet in the info boxes, this could be much more consistent. is there a source for his birthplace? -- Denstat 05:47, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

The NHL lists him as being from Burnaby, but other sources, such as Here, say Vancouver. However, Burnaby is part of the Greater Vancouver Regional District, and for all intents and purposes, would be considered Vancouver to most outsiders. Its a lot like saying your from Toronto, but really from York. Kaiser matias 23:35, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I also just read the Encyclopedia of British Columbia, which states Burnaby. So until it can be proven otherwise with something as official, I'm going to delete the Vancouver reference. Kaiser matias 20:07, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Croatia or Yugoslavia

Over the last few days, numberous users have been chaning Sakic's ancestery from Croatia to Yugoslavia and back. All this time, there has never been a source for any of these edits. Well, I did a simple Google search for "Joe Sakic Croatia," and came up with several sources stating his parents came from Croatia. Yes, they left what was called Yugoslavia, but if you do your research, Yugoslavia was not one state; as it says on the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia article (where Sakic's parents would have left from), "the state was divided into six Socialist Republics, and two Socialist Autonomous Provinces that were part of SR Serbia." It is like saying that a Polish immigrant at the turn of the century was Russian, German or Austrian. They weren't, it just was the country ruling over them. So, unless anyone can prove that Sakic is not Croatian, but Yugoslav (which is a blanket term for all South Slavs, Croats included), don't revert again. Kaiser matias 21:53, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

It is very similar to Wayne Gretzky's heritage. He's of Polish background and his grandparents were Polish immigrants from a village which is now located in Belarus. It was a part of the Russian Empire at the time. This, however, does not classify him as being Russian or Belorussan, just Polish. As for Sakic, it should have been stated that his parents came from Yugoslavia, not Croatia. Yugoslavia was formed of several states, but they were NOT independent countries. Croatia was NOT an independent country at the time when his parents came to Canada. It was part of Yugoslavia.

Norum 22 December 2006

That is a valid point, with a very good analogy. However, according to the article Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, which would be the Yugoslavia of Sakic's parents, the state was divided into 6 socialist republics. It is similar to the former Soviet Union. It had several republics that were nominally independent, however all shared a unifying government. I'm going to make a change that should clarify the situation.

Speaking of the Soviet Union. Let's take Antropov and Ponikarovsky for example. Antropov is not a Kazakh. He's a Russian player born in the former Kazakh SSR. It does say he was born n Ust-Kamenogorsk, U.S.S.R. now Kazakhstan. Same goes for Ponikarovsky. He's Ukrainian, but it also specifies he was born in Kiev, U.S.S.R., now Ukraine. I think the way you have reverted to is good. Thanks.

Norum 24. Dec. 2004

Glad we've reached a consensus on this. However, it seems some people still do not like it. To whomever keeps changing this, there are reliable sources. The NHL reference is a notable one. And his speaking Croatian, which while a faulty point, is a good indicator he is/was Croatian. So simply put, stop changing this. Kaiser matias 21:41, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

I am not the one who is doing this Norum 24.dec.2006

I'm not accusing you of doing this, don't worry. It's random users without accounts who seem to not care about any established facts. Kaiser matias 23:40, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

GA Review

I had to fail this for the following reasons:

1. The lead is too short and the structure of it needs to be greatly impoved. See WP:LEAD.
2. No references in Quebec, but more importantly,
3. the article has no paragraph structre, it's mostly 1 or 2 sentence chunks strewn everywhere.

So, it fails criterion 1c, and ceriterion 1 in general, among others. i would suggest a general expansion on his playing career, you guys can do fat better than that. this is quite heavily referenced though, so despite what I said in number 2, I really don't have a problem with that.--Wizardman 16:04, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Full Name

I can't find any source stating that his full name is indeed Joeseph Steven Sakic. If someone can get a source, that would be excellent. Kaiser matias 00:08, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't know how it works in USA but in Sweden you can simply contact authorities or some websites. Try this or the NHLPA. --Krm500 00:18, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Just rememberd that ESPN usually has full names of sports guys. Once again thanks. Kaiser matias 00:24, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

New source added

I just added Sakic's HHOF Legends of Hockey profile into the external links. There's some interesting info there that isn't included in our wikipedia article, if anyone wants to take a look and integrate some of it in ColtsScore 07:54, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I used that site extensively for the the article. Just never thought of putting it up in the external links section. Good call. Kaiser matias 14:11, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

GA Review

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   a (fair representation): b (all significant views):

5. It is stable.

   

6. It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.

   a (tagged and captioned): b lack of images (does not in itself exclude GA): c (non-free images have fair use rationales):

7. Overall:

   a Pass/Fail:

Comments

A very good article and easily passes the GA criteria. Just a few small things which aren't really required but will look a bit neater on the article IMO.

• When I tend to write in Sports Bios I tend to use the {{mainarticle}} template just below the heading, for example for the Colorado Avalanche section you could put this:

Main article: Colorado Avalanche

Just below the section heading, this way the reader will be able to find the Avalanche link much more easily without going through the main body text to find the link. You could also try it with the Internation Career section, but link it to the Candian Ice Hockey team. Done that

• In the lead sentence you have the birth details, but what I tend to do is not have the country in the PoB part - if he was born in the same country as his nationality then just put the location and state. So it would look like this, (born [...] Burnaby, British Columbia) rather then (born [...] Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada). Fixed that

• For the succession boxes try and use {{s-sports}} and {{s-awards}} headings and sort each success under those two headings Not really sure what you mean by that, so I've left it

• And get Image:Sakic3.jpeg on the Wikipedia Commons as it has the appropriate license. I have a lot of photos with the same license, and need to put them all up

Beside that, well done for producing an excellent article and good luck with it's further improvement.--Phill ^{talk Edits} 11:59, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for passing the article. It was a lot of work getting it here, and I'm glad that it finally made it. Now on to FA-status. Kaiser matias 02:44, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

All-Star statistics

I suppose I can move the all-star stats to the career statistics section. The reason I originally removed it was because I haven't seen it in most player pages, but it does seem noteworthy so I'll figure something out. Sportskido8 07:33, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I think it's noteworthy in the records he has set at the games. Jmlk17 07:44, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

What a great job you're doing with this article, Sportskido8. I just have one thing to say: I don't really think that it should be mentioned in Wikipedia that Sakic listed Tiger Woods or Ray Romano as people he'd have golf with. And I think the All-Star statistics are noteworthy enough to be mentioned, even if it is in prose only. Thanks for your work here.--Serte ^{[ Talk · Contrib ]} 15:04, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

No problem. With the golf thing I guess I was trying to make "personal life" bigger since it's kind of small, but it doesn't need to be there. I may get rid of that. Sportskido8 16:26, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I have to say it's good to see someone taking control of the article after I had to let go midway through its FA nomination. And making it look much better than I could do as well. Good show. Kaiser matias 17:44, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Hear hear! Jmlk17 07:45, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Getting closer to FA

Once all the prose and the grammar are dealt with, I think this can go up for an FA-nomination. It shouldn't be hard to fix any objections that it gets. Sportskido8 06:52, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Once again, thanks for fixing up where I left off. I feel kind of bad for just abandoning it in the middle of the first nomination, but didn't have much choice. Kaiser matias 06:46, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

It's alright. It's tough to get it in on the first nomination anyhow. Sportskido8 07:45, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Common...anybody has better photo than this one?Virenque 09:49, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Seems all has been fixed, and nomination has begun. Jmlk17 09:39, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

It's great that we're getting this up for FA again. At this time I am doing a complete review of this article to identify any potential manual of style issues. Two quick notes that I noticed: First is English vs. British (in this article, favour vs. favor, centre vs. center, etc.) - which are we using? Also, I believe the manual of style states using en dashes (–) in years, including years in situations where we'd say 2005–06. Right now, the wikilinks are to the season titles which do not use en dashes... should we simply change the appearance of our wikilinks or should we aim to have the article titles themselves overhauled? I'm not familiar with the policies or standards here. --Sesameball^Talk 00:30, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

And he played centre with the Nordiques, and he plays center with the Avalanche. -- Gene Nygaard (talk) 20:32, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

For the first question, I would guess British/Commenwealth spelling would be better, seeing Sakic is Canadian. In a personal matter, I'm Canadian and a major contributor to the article, so it helps me to use British spelling. About the en dash. I am not entirely certain about how that goes over through articles, but I am certain that the article titles should stay as is. Hope that clarifies everything. Kaiser matias 00:51, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the comment. It seems you are correct - on all the articles on the NHL awards featured list I checked, it uses the – formatting in seasons with the wikilink back to the article title (which uses the "-"), so I'll just go ahead and do the same in this article. --Sesameball^Talk 23:57, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Just on a pedantic point, there is no such thing as 'British English', it is simply 'English'. American English is the different language. Thanks. 131.111.195.8 (talk) 13:23, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

New questions on number format and dashes in adjective phrases

1. Format on numbers (e.g., eighty-three goals vs. 83 goals) and where to use them - the article used both formats in different places, and I changed season and post-season references to number format. I kept other mentions the same (e.g., "four goals in a game", etc.). I don't know if there is a hockey standard or anywhere in the WP:MOS that covers this.
2. Format on adjective phrases (e.g., "100 point season" vs. "100-point season") - the former is what the article uses. I didn't change this yet, but I assume the latter is what is grammatically appropriate. I couldn't find an example in the Wayne Gretzky FA, but the Dominik Hasek FA does use "xx-win season".

Any comments of course appreciated. And if I've changed anything incorrectly please just let me know and I'll go fix it. --Sesameball^Talk 00:59, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Ref probleme

Hello.

The ref #30 doesn't work anymore. --77.195.83.235 (talk) 23:03, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Exact date of achieving 800th career assist

Does anyone know when (the exact date) Sakic achieved his 800th career assist? Must have been in December 2002. Thanks! --Thomas ^✉ 19:58, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

[3] 7 March 2003 against Tampa Bay Lightning.--Serte ^{[ Talk · Contrib ]} 09:45, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks a lot!!! --Thomas ^✉ 22:40, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

All star game 2008

Sakic was the 5th most voted forward for the Western Conference all star roster,[4] but did not play because of his injury of course. Shouldn't this be mentioned? And how?--Serte ^{[ Talk · Contrib ]} 15:02, 25 January 2008 (UTC) Well, he wouldn't have been a certain pick anyway - only the top three voted players are picked for each conference as starters. Though I don't doubt he would have been included anyway. 131.111.195.8 (talk) 20:13, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

It might be mentionable... Jmlk17 21:09, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Nickname

Saving nickname for future use in prose. Burnaby Joe,
Super Joe, Mr. Clutch -Djsasso (talk) 00:52, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

References

1985-85

" ... the 1985-85 season ... " should either be " ... the 1985 season ... " or else at least one of the years is wrong. Art LaPella (talk) 04:02, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

That was simply a typo that has somehow escaped several reviews of the article. I've fixed it now. Kaiser matias (talk) 05:01, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Sentence fragment

But while Sakic enjoyed success on the ice, his team faced a tragedy on the night of December 30, 1986. I would've reworded myself, but not really sure how to. Pie is good ^{(Apple is the best)} 01:12, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

no 500

Hey, I just noticed that it doesn't mention when "Burnaby" Joe as we call him scored his 500th goal. It mentions his 400th and his 600th but not his 500th, which actually occurred for Joe in hometown Vancouver. It was a pretty big deal out here. I think the 500th goal should be included rather than the 400th goal? comments? TotallyTempo (talk) 07:00, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

In the Milestones section, it says "His 500th career goal came against the Vancouver Canucks on December 11, 2002." Kaiser matias (talk) 17:32, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Name Pronounciation

I understand why people want to leave his named spelt "Sakic" but stating that it is pronounced IPA: /ˈsɑːkɨk/ is simply dumb, so I have removed it. IPA: /ˈsɑːkɨk/ is a pronounciation that became common after a decade of broadcasters not being able to pronounce his name properly. That is not how his last name is pronounced and that is not how his family pronounces his last name. Joe tried to correct people earlier in his life, but they could never pick it up.Ezc 195 (talk)

The pronunciation was sourced and is pretty much the accepted pronunciation. It belongs there. Please don't remove it again unless a consensus is reached to remove it. -- Luke4545 (talk) 16:38, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

The source is not legit. It's just a broadcasters guide to how they pronounce the name. I spoke to Joe's uncle yesterday. I usually see Joe's dad once a year. I don't know what better source there is than his family. I would not bring it up, except it's embarassing to suggest the name is pronouced like that. It's like having the last name "Smith" and having people pronounce it as "Smutt", just because people do it doesn't mean it's proper. Wikipedia should not promote an incorrect pronounciation. As for the spelling of his parents' last name, it should revert to the spelling on their Yugoslav citizenship, not "Sakic."Ezc 195 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 14:27, 23 January 2009 (UTC).

The source is not legit? But I'm sure that you apparently speaking to Sakic's uncle is legit, right? Hell, while we're at it, maybe I should claim I spoke to Sakic himself yesterday. There's no way to confirm any of that. The source given for the pronunciation on Sakic's page is USA Today, which is considered a reliable source on Wikipedia. As far as the spelling of his name, that's been discussed near the top of this discussion page. -- Luke4545 (talk) 15:06, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, the source was actually sourced to the NHL Broadcasters Association which I'd also assume to be a reliable source. Unless there's a credible source that says otherwise (and no, "I talked to Joe yesterday and he said ..." is not credible) then I think the current sourced version should remain. - Rjd0060 (talk) 15:57, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Even if it turns out to not be how they pronounce it, it now falls under the most common usage guideline. -Djsasso (talk) 16:05, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Verifiability is the requirement. We can verify via USA Today, a reliable source that this is the pronounciation. Your claim that you have spoken with Sakic's family on this is not verifiable, and therefore not reliable. Thus, the source provided has greater legitimacy than your word. If you can find another reliable source with what you consider to be the proper pronounciation guide, then we can look into which version is superior. Resolute 16:07, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

The pronounciation is wrong, I'm just saying why not leave it out. By showing it you are promoting an incorrect pronounciation. I am proposing that we just leave it as being spelt "Sakic" with no pronounciation. That way it is not promoting the more common (but incorrect way). You don't need a pronounciation guide if you want to pronounce it as "Sa-kick". I am only making a fuse because his family does not like it pronounced that way. Imagine if your last name was pronounced incorrectly and a popular website promoted it. Anyways, what would be an acceptable source? Joe's uncle (Branko) has wine at my aunt's house everyday. Do you want me to videotape him saying the name and post it on here?Ezc 195 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 16:22, 23 January 2009 (UTC).

Find another source. It must meet the reliable sources guideline in order to verify it. Once you do that, we'll remove it. If what you think is the correct pronunciation is in fact the correct pronunciation, then there should be plenty of sources to back it up. - Rjd0060 (talk) 16:29, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Wouldn't the current pronunciation still remain, though, given the common usage guideline that Djsasso mentioned above? Even if the pronunciation currently shown in the article may be technically incorrect, it's still the most commonly-used pronunciation. For example, the technically-correct pronunciation of Maria Sharapova's last name is "Shuh-rah-poh-vuh." However, it's most-commonly pronounced "Share-uh-poh-vuh," which I believe is the pronunciation given in that article. -- Luke4545 (talk) 16:39, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps. However, there would at least be a basis for argument and discussion if he found another reliable source to dispute this one with. - Rjd0060 (talk) 16:48, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeah you need to find a better source. The threshold is verifiability, not truth.-Wafulz (talk) 16:36, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Very good. I almost have a source. Hopefully I can get it by the end of the day, if not by the end of the week. As for the Sharapova comment, I would argue that most people pronounce it correctly, only a minority in North America do not. Those living in Europe and of close European decent in NA pronounce it correctly. That is why it is best to state proper pronounciation as opposed to "common" ones, as "common" pronounciations can vary from region to region (For example, Australians, Americans, and Canadians all speak English, but pronounce many words differently). Take care!Ezc 195 (talk) 16:58, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I've heard a lot of audio of people in other countries pronounce Sharapova's name the same way many people in North America do. I would say the minority are those who pronounce it the other way (even though it is technically the correct pronunciation). By the way, may I ask how you're going about finding the reliable sources for the pronunciation of Sakic? -- Luke4545 (talk) 17:36, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Alright here is the link for discussion. Joe gives two pronounciations: "Sa-keech" which is a Serbian variant (His family is Croatian, so they do not use it). The second is "Sha-keech" which is the Croatian variant, and you will notice he puts more emphasis on this pronounciation (he is showing the comparision, depending on which ethnicity you are). The fact that "Sa-kick" is common should hold no weight. The page shows "Joseph" when clearly "Joe" is more common. Why? Because Joseph is the proper name. I would like you all to think about if your name was constantly mispronounced, surely you would not want the "common" pronounciation to be used. Wikipedia uses sources to try and provide the most correct information possible. This is the correct way HE pronounces his name and should be used out of respect. I'm interested in your opinions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiyT0ADyxrw Ezc 195 (talk) 17:52, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Sakic is pronounced as Sack-kick. GoodDay (talk) 18:19, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

No that is not correct. I have clearly posted a superior source (Joe Sakic) compared to ("US Today"). All Slavic people pronounce it correctly. Even the French (in France, not Quebec) can pronounce it correctly and they hate anything not French. Is my source credible?Ezc 195 (talk) 18:30, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Actually looking at that clip it appears that he is listing off the incorrect ways people have pronounced it. Its not even the full interview, just a clip that has no context. And I would note that the article name is Joe not Joseph. The first line is showing the full version, but for article titles its always the most common name, even if its not their real name ie Tiger Williams. -Djsasso (talk) 18:39, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Are you kiding me? This is flying in the face of logic. I really don't know what else to do, I think it's just stuborness. What exactly do you need? The entire clip? Should I bring him to your door? Everyone I know calls Steve Yzerman, Stevie Y. This is far more common in Canada than his real name. Should we start changing that too? Just tell me what you guys need. Ezc 195 (talk) 18:45, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

The problem is that in that clip you can't tell if he is listing the correct ones or wrong ones. Especially since right before it they list off a bunch of other ones in a graphic. I actually don't know anyone in my part of Canada that calls him Stevie Y, most just call him Yzerman. That's the problem with going with unsubstantiated information, its all just biased personal opinion. We need multiple reliable published sources prooving otherwise, considering there are thousands of such references for the version you don't accept. -Djsasso (talk) 18:49, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

I understand your side. But I think you must agree that these other sources are not from Joe or any sort of academic source that would be qualified in pronounciations. The NHL broadcasters' association simply includes what is most common among broadcasters, not what is right. Anyone of of Croatian/Serbian/Bosnian/Slovenian origin can tell you that the two pronounciations he used were the Serbian and Croatian versions. Notice these versions are not the common "Sa-Kick", so why would they even come up? I'm working on getting the full clip, but there is a problem with NHL copyright (I have contacted Vic Lomardi and he assures me I am correct). If he comes to Canada, I'll get his uncle to get him to say his name on CBC afterhours. There would then be a full clip on the internet. I really don't know what else you guys need. Sakic is called "quoteless" Joe for reason as he barely says anything in interviews. Please excuse my frustration. My grandfather came to Canada with Joe's father and I had the pleasure to meet Joe a number of years ago. He is considered a hero among Canadian-Croatians, so the proper pronounciation of his name becomes a personal issue. Almost a sense of pride.Ezc 195 (talk) 18:58, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

I too, don't understand the foreign language pronouncement thingy. To an English reader, it makes no sense. GoodDay (talk) 19:02, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

One other thing to note, is words can change pronunciation in different languages, CAN-EN and US-EN pronunciation might be Sa-Kick while the Serbian/Croatian language ones might be the version you suggest. And being that this is an english version of wikipedia we would go with the english ones. I am not saying this is necessarily the case with his name, but it is with other names. -Djsasso (talk) 19:10, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm not even fighting for the correct Serbo-Croatian. I simply want the incorrect one off. People who know that it is pronounced "Sha-keech" might come on here and think that it is not. I'm simply pushing for a more "neutral" position. I think there should be no "Sa-kick" IPA shown, so people can interpret (Sha-keech or Sa-kick) however they want. But by keeping the incorrect "sa-kick" you might have people go from pronouncing his name correctly to incorrectly, thinking wikipedia is showing the rightful pronounciation. I am pushing for no IPA for the first line, not the correct one. To Djsasso, I completely understand. However, usually when going from language to language, the pronounciation stays the same, but the spelling changes. In English, Sakic would become Shakich. Marian had the chance to change it to that, but "Shakich" would look embarrasing compared to "Sakic". It would be like changing Smith to Swigenhogen.Ezc 195 (talk) 19:19, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

But I've never heard his name pronounced as Sha-keech. GoodDay (talk) 19:29, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

I think that's irrelevant. It is the proper way he pronounces the name. I just want the incorrect IPA off. That's all. I think it continues to promote an incorrect pronounciation. Imagine if Joe was a Frenchman? It would considered racist to mispronounce his name on purpose. The IPA is misleading. If people want to pronounce his name "Sa-kick" than so be it, but wiki should not be promoting an incorrect pronounciation. English wiki respects French names like "Gagner" (which isn't converted to Gahdg-nr in English). I think a classy guy like Joe Sakic deserves the same respect. It should be left neutral at least, no IPA. Why isn't Jagr pronounced "Jay-gr", because people respect the true pronounciation of the name (Ya-gr). Joe deserves the same respect, he's just too nice of guy to pick a fight over it. Ezc 195 (talk) 19:33, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

If all that you want done is the removal of the IPA pronounciation, I would be for that. It would not change the content of the article at all, so shouldn't be a problem. Kaiser matias (talk) 19:53, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

That's all I want. IPAs should be used for showing correct pronounciation across languages, not for showing an incorrect but common one. EDIT: I would also like (originally Šakić, IPA: [ˈʃakiʨ][9]) change to (Šakić in Croatian, IPA: [ˈʃakiʨ][9]) or (Croatian: Šakić, IPA: [ˈʃakiʨ][9]). "Originally" implies his family has changed the pronounciation, which really can't be proven. "in Croatian" is correct and allows for the possibility of them keeping the original pronounciation or changing it to "Sa-kick" (they haven't, but it gives it more of a neutral feel). Are there any objections to simply removing the first IPA (and not replacing it) and changing "originally" to "in Croatian"? I apologize if I was too quick to change things on my own, I'm very new to actually trying to edit wikipedia. I now realize there is a procedure in place. Take Milan Lucic (Serbian) for example. His name is "Lu-cheech" not "Lu-kick". (talk) 20:02, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Retirement

Before we make 'big changes', let's wait until he officially announces it (on July 9). GoodDay (talk) 23:04, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Fair enough. I was starting to have second thoughts about this. Its probably going to be heavily edited in the coming days as people try to change the page saying his is retired. Kaiser matias (talk) 23:17, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Indeed, the same thing will be happening at Colorado Avalanche & Template: Colorado Avalanche roster. -- GoodDay (talk) 23:49, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

(sighs) It's a sad thing when players as classy as Joe Sakic hang them up.  Ravenswing  07:02, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

It was inevitable, but I was holding out hope that he would stick around long enough to captain Team Canada at the 2010 Olympics. That would have been a way to go out, especially when it is in your hometown. Kaiser matias (talk) 13:28, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

It really depends on what report you are going on, a number of reports I have heard have talked about if he was going to be announcing his retirement he wouldn't have waited since he said a few weeks ago he had already made his mind up. Some reports think he is going to be announcing that this is his final year and that he signed a contract and the reason for waiting was to see what kind of money was left after the FA Frenzy. -Djsasso (talk) 14:13, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

My guess is, he chose to wait until after his 40th birthday. Scott Niedermayer, you may get the captaincy in 2010 Olympics. GoodDay (talk) 19:51, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Now it is official. What a shame to see such a great hockey player retire. Now going to have to touch up the article a bit, it looks like it could use some work. Kaiser matias (talk) 23:07, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

(sighs twice) Mm, just saw the video again of the Avs winning the Cup in 2001 and Joe immediately handing the Cup off to Ray Bourque. Now I saw Jean Beliveau play, and I saw Jean Ratelle play many a time, and Yzerman and Esposito and Delvecchio and others like them, but if Joe Sakic doesn't stand alone in terms of skill, loyalty and class, I don't know of any center I've seen in my lifetime who surpassed him.  Ravenswing  07:44, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Calder voting results

Just so we don't clutter up the edit history of the page, and have a better means to flesh it out: @Vranak:, while I personally think the voting results are more appropriate for the season article (which suffer from a lack of detail as is), I will agree it can be used here, but don't think it needs to note extra things like Linden, their ages, and so on. I made some attempt here, let me know what you think. Kaiser matias (talk) 18:52, 6 October 2018 (UTC)