Talk:John A. Hilger/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Zawed (talk · contribs) 06:39, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

I'll review this one, comments to follow in next few days. Zawed (talk) 06:39, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. Will make updates to the article for GA based on your comments following review. Toadboy123 (talk) 10:50, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Having looked at this, I am concerned that it is a little way from being ready for GA (I suspect that this is why it took as long as it did to get reviewed). Some initial comments:

• The lead should be expanded to be more of a summary of the overall article.
• No need for the cite in the lead; as it should be a summary, everything mentioned here should already be cited in the body of the article.
• Not all the commands listed in the infobox are mentioned in the article.
• I don't believe that "Children of the Doolittle Raiders" is a reliable/independent source. Fortunately, it is only used a few times so hopefully will be easily replaced.
• Ranks should not be capitalised if not part of the subject's title, i.e. "Captain Hilger" is OK, "Hilger was a captain" is also OK.
• In terms of dates, once the year is established
• The heading hierarchy seems off to me. Suggest integrating the first part of his military career into the early life section then using World War II as the major heading. At that point mention the anti-submarine patrols that was his major operational work. Also, what kind of aircraft was he flying at this stage? Instead the "post raid" heading, I suggest "Later war service". The Cold War heading should be the same hierarchy as the World War II heading. (I hope that this makes sense; it does in my mind, but my wife says nothing I say makes sense...)
• Don't use laudatory language e.g. for the famous "Doolittle Raid",
• The last part of the final sentence of the Cold War section is uncited.
• Suggest integrating the information in the Personal life section with the remaining sections so that it is all chronological. I have seen the current format used elsewhere and have always found it jarring.
• The bullet pointed material in the Awards section should be integrated into the later life section.
• Note 1 is uncited.
• Nelson is listed in the Bibliography section but is not actually cited; move it to a "Further reading" section.
• The caption for the image of Hilger and his B-25 crew is quite wordy; suggest deleting the ranks/names of the crew

I will do a more detailed review of the prose once the above is attended to. There is a bit of revision work here and I wonder if it may be better for me to fail the review for now so you can attend to the necessary remedial edits, and then renominate it. I am happy to work with you outside of the GA process to achieve this but wouldn't be able to be the reviewer for the renomination. Let me know either way how you want to proceed. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 01:11, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

I have made most the edits to the articles based on the suggestions you have made above following the review. I hope you can review the article and if possible make any more minor edits to ensure that it will attain GA article status. Toadboy123 (talk) 03:05, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Some points haven't been dealt with well - I expanded the lead some more so that the second paragraph is a summary of the entire article and have made a few edits elsewhere in addition.

• There is still one cite to the Children of the Doolittle Raiders.
• Note 1 is still uncited.
• You have him as flying cadet in the Air Corps twice, and same for second lieutenant.
• I will go through the prose soon, but at this stage, the only thing that really stands out is the placement of the paragraph dealing with his deceased brother. I would probably have this at the end of the section. Zawed (talk) 07:51, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

I have made the modifications as per your second and third points. Toadboy123 (talk) 08:55, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Also completed the first and final suggestions made by you, for the article. Toadboy123 (talk) 12:47, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Circling back to this for a belated prose review/final look.

Lead

• a United States Air Force general and deputy commander of the Doolittle Raid...: the structure here implies that he was a general at the time of the Doolittle Raid and during WWII, when in fact it looks as though he didn't reach general rank until well in the 1950s. I suggest replacing the term general with officer.
• link Lieutenant Colonel

Early life

• Despite leaving from his studies in 1929...: "leaving from" doesn't sound right, perhaps replace with "abandoning" so long as that doesn't hew to close to the source (or just "leaving")
• link bachelor of science, adjutant, captain, major, Washington
• in October 1939. In May 1940, Hilger was transferred to McChord Field, Washington,...: awkward sentence construction here, with two dates mentioned back to back. Suggest "in October 1939. Hilger was transferred to McChord Field, Washington, in May 1940,...

World War II

• Is it known why Doolittle selected Hilger for the role of deputy commander? I would assume it would be because of his B-25 experience but perhaps the two also knew each other from previous assignments. While not essential for GA status, it would be nice to have a mention of some sort of connection.
• Can we also have a one-liner as to the motivation for the Doolittle Raid. E.g. "The mission was intended to be a retaliatory response to the attack at Pearl Harbor" or similar.
• link Lieutenant Colonel, colonel, Ensign, Orlando
• Running low on fuel due to the early launch of the raid...: no antecedence for the fact the launch was made early. Perhaps integrate into the sentence beginning "On April 18, 1942...", something along the lines of "...took off from the Hornet earlier than planned due to fears the Hornet had been detected by the Japanese, and reached Nagoya in Japan.
• delink China; generally not necessary to link countries
• link 344th Bomb Group (here and in infobox), even if it is a redlink
• Pipelink "Kunming, China" so that China is not linked.
• Following his return to the U.S,: should be "Following his return to the United States," for consistency with first mention of country
• During the last 18 months of World War II,...: firstly, combine this with the previous paragraph; as it stands it is too short to be a standalone paragraph. Secondly, I think it would read better if "During" was replaced with "For". Thirdly, given the end date of his previous appointment, the war only lasted for 12 more months, not 18.
• ...brother Lt. Ted Hilger served...: write rank out in full

Cold War

• in B-29 Superfortresses during the war.: the "during the war" is a bit redundant given earlier mention of the Korean War
• Pipelinl "Sinuiju, North Korea" so that North Korea is not linked. Ditto "Oslo, Norway"
• 666 yards: add a conversion template for meters
• link: Air Force Operational Test Center, Air Proving Ground Command, Eglin Air Force Base
• There are a couple of single sentence paragraphs in this section, integrate them with the others but watch out for dates appearing to next other (at the end/start of successive sentences)

References

• The date of publication format for cite 4 should be made consistent with the format used for other dates in this section. Also the name of the article should be rendered in title case, which seems to be the style used for the other citations

I made made a few tweaks to the text here and there, check you are happy with the changes. Apologies for taking so long here. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 05:05, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

One final thing I just spotted, his nickname is presently uncited and needs to be worked into the text somewhere. Zawed (talk) 05:07, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

I have made edits based on the most recent suggestions you made right now. Toadboy123 (talk) 08:59, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

Reviewing the changes, several issues weren't enacted or missed altogther. I've gone ahead and dealt with them myself for sake of wrapping this review up. Passing as GA as I believe the article meets the necessary criteria. Zawed (talk) 09:26, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks a million! Toadboy123 (talk) 11:39, 10 March 2023 (UTC)