Talk:Joseph T. Ryan

Requested move 24 December 2015

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was move per request as the common name.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 16:22, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

---

John Joseph Thomas Ryan → Joseph T. Ryan – This isn't exactly my area of expertise, which is why I'm putting it out for discussion. I've developed the impression that articles on Catholic bishops are being titled on Wikipedia according to how their names appear on catholic-hierarchy.org and other Catholic-centric sources. When I read this article, the biography begins by referring to him as "Joseph T. Ryan". This causes me to wonder whether we're heeding WP:COMMONNAME in this case or other cases. A cursory Google search shows that sources not associated with the Catholic Church strongly favor the shorter title. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 14:20, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

• Support - the middle initial is the common name, as shown by (for example) his NY Times obit. (This could have been boldly moved, I think). Neutrality^talk 02:44, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
• Support - I agree as stated in WP:COMMONNAME it should be renamed and moved. (Just for future reference, the article should not be boldly moved, because it has to do with living people, and the guideline clearly states to reach consensus before making a move.) TheJack15 (talk) 10:34, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
  • This article is an obvious no-brainer. I sought discussion due to the fact that countless articles within the 1/500th or 1/1000th or whatever minute percentage of biographical articles I've browsed over the years adhere to this pattern, being named according to particular sources instead of the subject's common name, or for that matter any consideration related to OUR policies and guidelines instead of that of some other website. From the looks of it, just straightening out these Catholic bishop articles alone could keep someone busy, never mind other classes of articles with similarly anachronistic titles. Perhaps there's a better venue for that discussion? Even when the articles are renamed, proponents of anachronistic titles and their sources are slow to acknowledge consensus on a common name. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 14:45, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
  • Ryan has been dead for fifteen years, so BLP would not apply. Neutrality^talk 22:43, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
    • Striking confirmed sock. Tiggerjay (talk) 22:54, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
• Support based on commonname in gbooks, among others. As to the other questions, these policies do apply WP:NCCL and WP:FULLNAME. Tiggerjay (talk) 02:47, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Unless I missed something, WP:FULLNAME pertains to how a person's name appears in the lead, not how the article is titled. I can assure you that Keith Harvey Miller is only referred to by his full name on Wikipedia and whichever cherry-picked sources were referenced when creating that particular article. As can be witnessed here, we have Wikipedians disregarding common name considerations, not to mention WP:KISS and who knows what else, to give undue weight to an anachronistic title. This suggests that Wikipedia has become a little too enamored with its (perceived) self-importance, or is perhaps more interested in trying to influence reality when there's plenty of real work left to do reflecting reality. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 06:09, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.