Talk:John Newham

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Editor Ian Rose has reverted with the edit summary: Make page nos. obvious. {{cite journal}} is a template to be used for academic and scholarly journals. As such, it adheres to the volume-issue-page style appropriate to those types of journal. That style does not include p. and pp. prefixes.

It is the purpose and responsibility of the template to render a citation in a style consistent with its type. It is also the responsibility of the template to provide metadata for users of bibliographic software. That metadata should not include extraneous text and markup. This is noted in the documentation for each of the cs1|2 templates.

This is one of the two {{cite journal}} templates in question:

{{cite journal|journal=[[Air Force (newspaper)|RAAF News]], Vol. 27, No. 5| date= June 1985|title=New CAS sets his sights on the future|author= Llewelyn, Ken|page=p. 1}}

Llewelyn, Ken (June 1985). "New CAS sets his sights on the future". RAAF News, Vol. 27, No. 5: p. 1. {{cite journal}}: |page= has extra text (help)

This template misuses |journal=:

|journal=[[Air Force (newspaper)|RAAF News]], Vol. 27, No. 5

{{cite journal}} has parameters for |volume= and |issue= (also aliased as |number=). Those parameters should be used so that the citation renders correctly; so that the metadata for |journal= is not corrupted; so that the template can provide proper |volume= and |issue= metadata. As written, 'Vol. 27' and 'No. 5' are italicized as if they were part of the journal's name; they aren't and shouldn't be. Similarly the template misuses |page=:

|page=p. 1

the p. prefix does not belong in the metadata and is inconsistent with the style used by {{cite journal}}

And the second template:

{{cite journal|journal=RAAF News|title=OPCOM changes|page= p. 1|date=March 1987}}

"OPCOM changes". RAAF News: p. 1. March 1987. {{cite journal}}: |page= has extra text (help)

In this template, |page= is misused as just described. The template also appears to be incomplete, missing both |volume= and |issue=.

The correct solution to this problem is to choose an appropriate template. For academic and scholarly journals, choose {{cite journal}}. For other types of periodical, consider {{cite news}} or {{cite magazine}}. Here is the first citation rewritten to use these other templates:

{{cite news |work=[[Air Force (newspaper)|RAAF News]] |volume=27 |issue=5 |date=June 1985 |title=New CAS sets his sights on the future |author=Llewelyn, Ken |page=1}}

Llewelyn, Ken (June 1985). "New CAS sets his sights on the future". RAAF News. Vol. 27, no. 5. p. 1.

{{cite magazine |magazine=[[Air Force (newspaper)|RAAF News]] |volume=27 |issue=5 |date=June 1985 |title=New CAS sets his sights on the future |author=Llewelyn, Ken |page=1}}

Llewelyn, Ken (June 1985). "New CAS sets his sights on the future". RAAF News. Vol. 27, no. 5. p. 1.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 13:45, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Mm, I don't know that the average reader is as concerned with metadata as with seeing consistently formatted and easy-to-read citations throughout an article. Anyway, RAAF News and its successors Air Force News and Air Force are not scholarly or academic works and despite their names are not typical newspapers but periodicals, so cite magazine is probably the closest template we have. Back in the day though, before cite magazine (which I've only just heard of in the past week or so), cite journal seemed the best route. If you're methodically going through articles then pls feel free to change occurrences of RAAF News, Air Force News or Air Force to cite magazine instead of cite journal, and I'll use cite magazine as appropriate in articles I create or edit . Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 22:24, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

The only people who care about metadata are the people who use it. That is sufficient reason to not dismiss it out of hand.

I've added RAAF News, Air Force News, and Air Force to my script. The script is just over halfway through Category:CS1 maint: Extra text so anything that it has already visited and fixed that has these {{cite journal}} templates will not get fixed because those articles are no longer in the category.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 23:01, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

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