Talk:John Thomas Douglass/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Amitchell125 (talk · contribs) 13:44, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

Happy to review this.

Review

Lead section / infobox

• I would unlink Virginia's Ball, which leads to a section within the article. It’s permissible, but imo not needed when the section title is only a few lines down.

Hmm, normally I would, but without the link I think it might appear that the Virginia's Ball article doesn't exist or is missing, so the link clarifies it does?

(sound of air being sucked through teeth) OK. AM

• Is it a good idea to link Overture? It doesn't seem obvious that Douglass named the piece as an overture in the sense conveyed by the article Overture (it is written for piano only and doesn’t precede a known larger work). Thoughts?
• Who was David Mannes?
• Berlioz, Sullivan, Rimsky-Korsakov, Holst, and Tchaikovsky are amongst the FA composers that have no infobox. I would consider the same for Douglass, about whom so little is known, whilst retaining the image with its caption.
• Conducted is linked in the article but not composer. I think it should be.
• Are you using Black or black? (both are OK, but both are used in the article)
• I would delete however as being too conversational.
• Link extant (Extant literature).
• Imo A highly regarded violinist is rather vague, could it be qualified in some way?
• in his youth – whose youth is being referred to here?
• Not in the lead (and which I would include): that Douglass toured the country during the 1870s; that he settled in New York during the ‘80s.

More comments to follow. Amitchell125 (talk) 09:30, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Have sorted the other two, though the overture link was my assumption that Douglass was getting at a kind of programmatic overture (like Tchaik Romeo and Juliet) but its probably a stretch. Aza24 (talk) 01:11, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

1 Life and career

• Consider a link New York or name it as a city (in case readers perhaps think it is referring to the state).
• Consider amending John W. Luca to ‘John W. Luca’ of the Lucas Singers (linked).
• It is worth noting that Joseph Douglass was not a relation?
• the elder Edmond Dédé - who was Edmond Dédé, and why is he referred to as an elder in this way?

elder contemporary or 'older contemporary'? AM

• Unlink guitar, a common word (instruments don’t generally seem to be linked).
• having died in 1886.- the prose here needs tweaking.
• presumably been performed the same year - can you state who presumed this (to stop it sounding editorial)?
• I'm confused on the sentence about his studio. Did he teach music to a class of students? Why did he manage it?

More to follow. AM

Fixed now Aza24 (talk) 01:11, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

2 Works

• Link acts (Act (drama)).

N not yet sorted. AM

• Who was Harry Lawrence Freeman?
  • Hmm, I would think the description after his name is enough, but what did you have in mind?

Yes, that looks fine. AM

• I would introduce Mozart, Rossini and Verdi (as composers and using their full names).
• What was Lee and Shepard? (I would clarify it as a publishing firm, in case readers assume they were people.)
• the former is lost (and later, it is now lost) repeat the music is now lost in the previous section.
  • Removed the second one. I've kept the 3rd since searching "Virginia's Ball" goes straight to the section, I want it to be clear without having to scroll up that it is lost—is that okay?

All good now. AM

• He is thought – by whom?
• Amend Trotter says to ‘Trotter said’, as he is not alive. Ditto Trotter also reports (‘Trotter also reported’).
• Consider amending he arranged to ‘Douglass arranged’, for the sake of clarity.
• A minor point: not uncommon is a double negative, consider amending this rather vague sentence to something like ‘Works by black composers of this period have generally not survived’.
• Like Douglass, Frederick Elliott Lewis [scores] (1846–18?) and Jacob J. Sawyer [scores] (1856–1885) – avoid any external links here. The two you specify can be cited, or added to the external links section.
  • moved to a note
• Your use of dates for people (e.g. David Mannes (1866–1959)) is not consistently applied. Personally, I would avoid including the dates.
  • I've removed them for Mannes. Would it be OK to keep them for the two keyboard composers, since there's no Wikipedia article on them?

That makes perfect sense to me. AM

• Replace Douglass's authorship of Virginia's Ball makes it generally with ‘It is generally’.
• the first significant black composer of opera - Why was he significant?
  • Because of the amount of operas he wrote and had performed—how can I clarify here?

Looking again, it's OK as it is. AM

• I would replace he wrote fourteen with ‘ he wrote 14 works’.
• Throughout the 20th century, Freeman was thought to be the first black composer to write an opera, until Southern's The Music of Black Americans: A History (1971) revealed Douglass's contribution. I’m not sure this sentence is needed.
  • Hmm, I included it because a) multiple sources stressed that Southern first figured it out and b)in case readers see an older source that says Freeman was the first black man to write an opera—maybe I should move the sentence to a note?

N I think a note would work. AM

• at this time – at what time?
• monetary is redundant imo.
• ''Douglass's only surviving work – that this is the case has already been stated.
• in Trotter's Music and Some Highly Musical People by Lee and Shepard could be replaced by ‘by Trotter’.
• Trotter records that Douglass wrote the piece earlier, in his twenties (1867–1876) – earlier is redundant.
• is in cut time is not noteworthy (no pun intended), and so should be removed.
• E minor  - consider amending to ‘in the key of E minor’ (a minor point..).
• Consider adding the length of the surviving piece in bars .
• The continuous use – why continuous?

More to follow. AM

• Besides my responses, the rest should be addressed I think

4 References

• Ref 1 (Bean), Ref 8 (Martin), and Ref 14 (Burnim & Maultsby) - are the links worth keeping if the pages are unavailable (as they are for me)?
  • Google books is weird. They were accessible for me, I think its periodic when they are and when they aren't

Best left in then. AM

• Consider replacing the source for Southern (1997) with this edition (1983) and amending the page to p. 248, so that readers can access the text. Registration required.
• Replace the link for Ref 5 (Price et al) with this; add the volume number (1). Registration required.
• Ref 7 (Koskoff) may be available to readers here (subscription required).
• Replace the link for Kirk with this. Registration required.
• The external links to Trotter seem to take you random pages, that are not connected with Douglass. Consider amending all of them to this one.
  • They seem to be working for me?

Me too. Weird. AM

• • The rest are addressed, I believe

5 Sources

• Link Anthony Barnett (poet).

On hold

I'm placing the article on hold for a week until 18 May to allow time for the above comments to be discussed and sorted. Amitchell125 (talk) 14:29, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Passing

Bar a couple of minor points, it looks all sorted. A terrific little article that that was great fun to review. Passing now, thanks for all your work. Amitchell125 (talk) 20:31, 17 May 2021 (UTC)