Talk:John Tonkin/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Nominator: Steelkamp (talk · contribs) 11:23, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: GMH Melbourne (talk · contribs) 07:34, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

I am happy to review this article. I have added the template and will begin shortly, if I have any comments they will be below the temp. This is only my second time reviewing a GAN so please bear with me, and don't hesitate to drop me any comments or questions. GMH Melbourne (talk) 07:34, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it well written?

   A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:

   B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:

2. Is it verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check?

   A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:

   B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):

   C. It contains no original research:

   D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:

   B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):

4. Is it neutral?

   It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:

5. Is it stable?

   It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:

6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

Review progress and notes

• The article is stable.
• I am satisfied with the licensing of the images. Not a requirement, but given that the article is ~4000 words, a couple more images would be ideal, I personally wasn't able to find anything useable in a Google & flicker search. GMH Melbourne (talk) 08:49, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
  • I checked the National Archives of Australia and only found one more image, but it is too low quality to use in the article. Steelkamp (talk) 02:43, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

  No problem, I also found some images on Wiki Commons but I don't think they are very relevant to the article's contents. GMH Melbourne (talk) 02:49, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

• Spot check completed: info is verifiable and free from copyright violations. GMH Melbourne (talk) 08:49, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
• No issues with the references section layout. GMH Melbourne (talk) 08:49, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
• Prose Review– Small changes, I have performed myself. Other comments, I have left below. — GMH Melbourne (talk) 02:38, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
• Update: I should be able to finish most of the review tomorrow, hopefully all completed by Sunday. GMH Melbourne (talk) 15:31, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

  I should be able to finish off the prose review and the other items on the GA criteria by today. GMH Melbourne (talk) 02:37, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

• I have finished the prose review. Once you have addressed the comments I will give the article a final read through. GMH Melbourne (talk) 10:02, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
• Thank you for that. I have ticked off prose after giving it a final read-through, the only outstanding item is the section titles which I've highlighted in purple below, let me know your thoughts on the suggestion. GMH Melbourne (talk) 14:11, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

  I've changed the section titles now. Steelkamp (talk) 08:30, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Prose review

Prose review

General Section titles: the section titles "In opposition", "As a Minister", "In opposition again", and "As a Minister again", I feel could be better. The Gough Whitlam article has the years included, the Malcolm Turnbull article has the government names. GMH Melbourne (talk) 05:52, 20 April 2024 (UTC) How's that? Steelkamp (talk) 08:30, 23 April 2024 (UTC) perfect! GMH Melbourne (talk) 08:37, 23 April 2024 (UTC) Lede The opening sentence/paragraph should mention Tonkin being a member of the Labor Party. GMH Melbourne (talk) 03:02, 19 April 2024 (UTC) Done. Don't know how I missed that. Steelkamp (talk) 07:56, 19 April 2024 (UTC) He entered the ministry again after Labor won the 1953 state election, this time most notably serving as the minister for works and minister for water. A bit of a confusing sentence, perhaps— "After Labor won the 1953 state election, he reassumed his role as a minister, most notably serving as the minister for works and minister for water." GMH Melbourne (talk) 03:02, 19 April 2024 (UTC) Reworded as suggested. Steelkamp (talk) 07:56, 19 April 2024 (UTC) A couple of times in the lede it has said— Labor lost the 19XX state election causing Tonkin to "leave the ministry" I have changed this to "lose his portfolios" because A) it is more accurate, clearer, and less ambiguous and; B) the term 'portfolio' is consistent with the descriptor used previously in the article. If you have any problem with this change feel free to revert/improve/discuss. GMH Melbourne (talk) 03:02, 19 April 2024 (UTC) Tonkin was made a Companion of the Order of Australia– Is "made" the correct term? Perhaps awarded or appointed? GMH Melbourne (talk) 03:02, 19 April 2024 (UTC) I think this is correct, seeing as Tonkin himself is a "Companion of the Order of Australia" as it's a title. See for example Gough Whitlam, which says "Whitlam was made a Companion of the Order of Australia in June 1978". Steelkamp (talk) 07:56, 19 April 2024 (UTC) No problem, I am happy with that then. GMH Melbourne (talk) 15:31, 19 April 2024 (UTC) Early life I have made some minor adjustments myself (see here). Any issues, feel free to revert/improve/discuss. GMH Melbourne (talk) 15:31, 19 April 2024 (UTC) I have no issues with this. Interestingly, the lead image of land reclamation is of the Mounts Bay reclamation. Steelkamp (talk) 07:35, 20 April 2024 (UTC) Early political career ...and caught the eye of Joe Chamberlain.– Adding Chamberlian's Job title here will clarify why this was significant. The source which hopefully says his job title at the time is behind a paywall (Kennedy 2014, pp. 44–45.). Perhaps include something like ...and caught the eye of Labor party state secretary, Joe Chamberlain if you can find the job title. GMH Melbourne (talk) 15:31, 19 April 2024 (UTC) Unfortunately, the source does not say what Chamberlain's job title at the time was. All the source says is "South-West group settler, F. E. Chamberlain, who became universally known as "Joe"". By the way, the Kennedy source can be accessed using a free internet archive account. Steelkamp (talk) 07:35, 20 April 2024 (UTC) As a minister Tonkin was appointed minister for education by Premier John Willcock, taking over from the overworked William Kitson, and minister for social services, a newly created position, in the Willcock ministry. Tonkin had dreamed of becoming the minister for education ever since he was a schoolboy. - These sentences go too much back and forth, perhaps something along the lines of– Tonkin was appointed minister for education and minister for social services by Premier John Willcock. Tonkin, who had taken over the role from William Kitson, had dreamed of becoming the minister for education ever since he was a schoolboy. — GMH Melbourne (talk) 05:52, 20 April 2024 (UTC) Hmm. I'll have to think about that. I don't want to reword it in a way that means information is lost. Steelkamp (talk) 07:35, 20 April 2024 (UTC) Chat GPT has suggested: Tonkin, fulfilling a long-held dream since his school days, assumed the roles of Minister for Education, succeeding the overburdened William Kitson, and Minister for Social Services, a newly established position, under Premier John Willcock's administration. GMH Melbourne (talk) 07:41, 20 April 2024 (UTC) I've reworded it. How is that? Steelkamp (talk) 12:56, 22 April 2024 (UTC) Thank you, that flows much better now GMH Melbourne (talk) 14:14, 22 April 2024 (UTC) As a minister again In July 1953, as acting premier...— the proceeding paragraph talks about the construction of a bridge and freeway. Shouldn't it perhaps read as—In July 1953, as acting premier and minister for works... (or something along those lines). — GMH Melbourne (talk) 05:52, 20 April 2024 (UTC) Done. Steelkamp (talk) 07:35, 20 April 2024 (UTC) ...Tonkin announced plans for the Kwinana Freeway to link Perth with the Kwinana to the south. — this sentence reads a bit confusingly, perhaps it would be easier to write something along the lines of: ...Tonkin announced plans to extend the Kwinana Freeway up north to Perth — GMH Melbourne (talk) 05:52, 20 April 2024 (UTC) I've reworded it. Steelkamp (talk) 07:35, 20 April 2024 (UTC) ...large amounts of land reclamation within Mounts Bay. - Wikilinking 'Mounts Bay' would be helpful if possible. - GMH Melbourne (talk) 05:52, 20 April 2024 (UTC) There is no page for Mounts Bay, so I have instead linked the Swan River. Steelkamp (talk) 07:35, 20 April 2024 (UTC) The Mounts Bay Road and the Bessie Rischbeith articles both address the issue of the reclamation of the north west corner of Perth Water (which is an article), but ascription to the actual naming of the Mounts Bay and its context in 1845 is not backed up by a reasonably accessible source, as far as I can see JarrahTree 06:52, 21 April 2024 (UTC) In opposition again Wikilink the term "credit betting" GMH Melbourne (talk) 10:02, 22 April 2024 (UTC) I Don't think there are any good articles for this to link to. Steelkamp (talk) 12:48, 22 April 2024 (UTC) I see later in the article there is a commented-out section regarding a dispute with Lang Hancock and Peter Wright. Should the dissolving of that friendship/association be briefly addressed here for the purpose of 3a (addresses main aspects) of the GA criteria? GMH Melbourne (talk) 10:02, 22 April 2024 (UTC) Thanks, I've added a bunch of information on the dispute. Steelkamp (talk) 12:48, 22 April 2024 (UTC) Premier I have added a few duplicated wikilinks as it is a major section (per MOS:REPEATLINK) GMH Melbourne (talk) 10:02, 22 April 2024 (UTC) Good idea. Steelkamp (talk) 12:48, 22 April 2024 (UTC) Budget Problems I have added more info (and a source) in connection with Arthur Bickerton being added to cabinet. I am not sure what the relevance of that is to the article and think it's a bit out of the scope. Let me know your thoughts on removing the sentence. GMH Melbourne (talk) 10:02, 22 April 2024 (UTC) I like to mention newcomers to cabinet usually. Steelkamp (talk) 12:48, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

oddity

It was almost a sport amongst librarians in the 1970s to include the photo of John Tonkin with students in front of one of the group settlement schools that he taught at, I am really surprised that there is not a PD image that was frequently used. The article lacks images of JT during his career, I would have thought the group settlement photo would have added something to the article. JarrahTree 08:01, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

@JarrahTree: Thank you for letting us know. @Steelkamp: Through a search at the WA state library website, I was able to find this image from when Tonkin was a teacher that can be licensed under Commons:Template:PD-Australia. There are a couple of other items that could be of use that the library is yet to have digitalized. GMH Melbourne (talk) 02:36, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

I've added a cropped version of that photo. Steelkamp (talk) 09:43, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.