Talk:Johnny Thunders

Suggested Merge

I don't see why Johnny Thunders should be merged with the Heartbreakers. Both articles need more work but both are seperate topics. Johnny Thunders had a prominent solo career and did a lot outside of stints with the Heartbreakers. The article on L.A.M.F. has information to add to the Heartbreakers aswell. Anyone disagree? Merely because the Heartbreakers article is short at this time, I don't think it should be merged.Case 18:09, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

The Heartbreakers are a very important band to the history of punk music. The Heartbreakers deserves its own article - because of the band's significance and influence. Kingturtle 20:29, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

AFIC, the Heartbreakers are more of a Richard Hell band than a Johnny Thunders band. At any rate, their importance is in their incarnation as an early Richard Hell band and their relation to latter Hell band the Voidoids, not as a late career band for Johnny Thunders.

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The Heartbreakers were NOT in any way a "Richard Hell band." When Johnny and Jerry left the Dolls, they formed a band and brought Richard Hell into the fold. When Hell tried to become the band "leader," Johnny and Jerry promptly kicked him out of the band and hired Billy Rath. Go to Richard Hell's official site and you'll read this in his bio pt. 2: "That week Johnny Thunders calls Hell to say he and Jerry Nolan have left the Dolls and asks if Richard'd like to start a new band with them. "Yeah," and the Heartbreakers are born." ___
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Do not merge. While for all practical purposes the Heartbreakers IS Johnny Thunders, their existence and influence as a band and a clique are independent. While mildly relevant to Richard Hell, the Heartbreakers fit in more with New York Dolls/Johnny Thunders history than Hell's. Richard Hell was a member of the band briefly, helping to write a couple Heartbreakers and Thunders standards (Hurt Me, Chinese Rocks). However, other bands that are more associated with their leader (such as a The Modern Lovers and even the Voidoids) have their own articles, so unless those articles are also merged, the Heartbreakers should have their own article. Kwalka 18:03, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

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I agree with the others... do NOT merge Johnny Thunders and the Heartbreakers sections. Ok, J.T was a verry important part of Heartbreakers but the band also was A BAND with other fame members and therefor the Heartbreakers deserve a article of there own... And J.T for sure deserve his own article, because of his own solo career!
/rigg, 15 mars 2006.

the heartbreakers sold out theaters of thousands of seats and signed major record label deals, without richard hell. they were the biggest band in new york around 76” and 77”. they were neither a backing band for johnny. they were a BAND in the proper sense of the word. Shhsbavavaa (talk) 23:12, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Eliminate Discography?

This discography is so incomplete it's practically worthless. I think it should be nixed until someone bothers to post the dozens of titles which go there, or at least pare it down to proper albums (not compilations). Mg196 05:53, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Personal Info

No mention made of kids, relationships (ie: Sable Starr), etc. Sylvain1972 20:32, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Gang War

No mention of the collab with Wayne Kramer? Wwwhatsup (talk) 07:34, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

DISCOGRAPHY EDITS NEEDED!

Someone needs to separate the legitimate releases from the bootlegs. In the cases where bootlegs cover the same material as an official release, the bootleg should be linked to the OFFICIAL album, and in the official album description the bootleg should be mentioned. make sense? MG196 09:05, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Be bold. Edit it how you see fit. Kingturtle (talk) 13:12, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Looking at the article for the first time in a while now, I find myself wondering if it's even necessary to have WP articles on the individual bootlegs. Wikipedia:MUSIC#Albums_and_songs would suggest not (unless there's an odd one that's had significant coverage in reliable sources). Bootleg tracklistings/info and cover scans are probably more appropriate for the various JT fansites out there. Any thoughts, folks? --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 22:35, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

genre

"Rock and roll, glam rock, punk rock, glam punk, rhythm and blues, protopunk" is what's written. I think all that verbeage is a little silly. Having 6 genres imples JT's music was very diverse and varied, when in fact his style was singular. The list reflects maybe disagreement over what to call this style. It should be called punk rock. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.224.205.58 (talk) 14:30, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

The impossible grandfather

Dead men do not become grandfathers, and this factoid is of no general interest. Nicmart (talk) 00:09, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

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Date of death

According to Thunders' Social Security death certificate, he actually died on April 15, 1991. Why is the date given as April 23 in the article? Esszet (talk) 13:12, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

Because that's what reliable, fact-checked sources such as The New York Times and Variety say? The Social Security Death Index, which you reference, is not a death certificate. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 00:53, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Whatever it is, it is a reliable source, and further research is necessary to determine exactly what's going on here. Esszet (talk) 13:39, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Opinion about whether the SSDI is a reliable source is mixed. Look at the archives at WP:RS/N. In my work experience dealing with pension plans, I've found it to be generally trustworthy for reporting deaths, but (a) we get copies of death certificates from family members, so I've never had to rely on it for dates of death and (b) my experience is limited to retirees who have been collecting Social Security benefits, not people -- like Thunders -- who died in their 30s. If the majority of reliable sources say April 23, and only one source says April 15, I would assume April 15 is wrong. By the way, AllMusic also says April 23. — MShabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 14:55, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

I was going to say that the SSDI isn't just any old reliable source because it's an official government database, but if there is significant doubt as to its reliability (and my own experience with it in doing genealogical research leads me to believe that such doubts are well-founded), enough weight probably shouldn't be accorded to it to single-handedly trump all the other sources. I also have to admit that it seems strange (though not impossible) that it took news of his death over a week to reach major media outlets, so the April 23 date should just be left in there for now, although if possible, it may be worth checking his death certificate. Esszet (talk) 21:29, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

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Discogs link broken

The Discogs link at the bottom of the page points to "Kemeticjust* Feat Terrance Downs ‎– I Got Life". I would correct it, but I don't understand the syntax used there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.0.208.64 (talk) 19:17, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Hello. Thank you for your message. I just fixed the link. It was using a template intended for an album instead of the one intended for an artist. Thanks again. — MShabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 19:52, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

I find the primary photo of Thunders offensive or at least in poor taste

The primary photo being shown for Johnny Thunders appears to have been taken at a recording session where he is exhausted, half-passed out, and looking very ill. I've never seen such an awful photo on Wikipedia of anyone else. Can't Johnny Thunders be portrayed with a decent photograph instead of something that looks like it was taken by tabloid paparazzi trying to capture someone's worst possible look?

Napooi (talk) 19:35, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Hello Napooi. Because of Wikipedia's copyright policy, we are limited to "free" images of Thunders (i.e., those that are not subject to copyright). The easiest ones to find are on Wikimedia Commons in Commons:Category:Johnny Thunders. I replaced the image, but the new one isn't a whole lot better. If you prefer one of the other images on Commons, replace it. If you know of a "free" image we can use, please upload it so we can add it to the article. Thank you. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 01:51, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

Birth name

Shouldn't birth name read Giovanni Antonio Genzale Jr? Does anybody know if the birth certificate say Johnny or Giovanni? I've read and heared him be called both.