Talk:Jollof rice/Archive 1

Archive 1

Origin

Extended content

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Did this come from Nigeria, Ghana, or a location in the UK? There appears to be a small dispute over its origin. Spencer^T♦C 22:33, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

OBVIOUSLY THIS DISH ORIGINATED FROM SENEGAL AND THE GAMBIA (SENEGAMBIA). THE JOLLOF PEOPLE ARE ORIGINATED AND ARE CONFINED IN THIS REGION AND IT IS A NATIONAL DISH OF BOTH COUNTRIES. I DON'T THINK THAT THERE IS ANY RELATIONSHIP OF JOLLOF WITH NIGERIA OR JOLLOF TRIBE IN NIGERIA. EXAMPLE - IT WOULD BE WRONG TO CONSIDER A DISH CALLED " YUROBA RICE" TO COME FROM THE GAMBIA BECAUSE IT IS A FACT THAT THE YUROBA TRIBE IS FROM NIGERIA. I AM A GAMBIAN AND I FULLY KNOW THAT THE JOLLOF PEOPLE ARE A TRIBE FROM SENEGAMBIA AND JOLLOF RICE IS OUR NATIONAL DISH.

Well at the moment we don't have any sources to say where it came from, I have no knowledge myself either I'm afraid but I can see that if true your reasoning seems sensible. Would you happen to have a book or some other source to cite the information from? Also please note that CAPS are generally considered to be shouting and it isn't nice to read. Smartse (talk) 11:59, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I found a reference from the 70s saying it originated in Gambia and then spread elsewhere. Is this version ok now? Smartse (talk) 12:32, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

you are right, i know fully well that it is a Senegambian dish and cooked commonly in Senegal and The Gambia. I think that any proof can't be so genuine and accurate as mine and would recomend that change to be made as to the origin of it.

Yes but wikipedia should be verifiable and therefore we need a source to quote if we are to put that it originated in Senegal and The Gambia. If you can find one to say this then changing it will be fine. At least it doesn't say it is Nigerian anymore! Smartse (talk) 12:57, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

it did come from nigeria and surly not from GHANA, read the history and ask your parents.

I don't think my parents would have a clue to be honest, the only reference that I could find said it came from Ghana and then spread to Nigeria. If you have a different source that states it originated in Nigeria then please add it to the article. Information must be verifiable and not based on personal experience. Smartse (talk) 17:21, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

This dish did in fact originate from Senegambia. The wolof people is where the name is derived from. Source will be attached shortly.Oluwasemilore (talk) 10:28, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Origin and sources

I tried yesterday to use sources meeting our criteria for this article. There's clearly a dispute about where this dish originated. I doubt very much that there are records proving where it came from. You're a reviewer. I was reverted by someone who thinks that a columnist in a Nigerian newspaper with qualifications in management and administration[1] meets our criteria for reliable sources better than a book published by the Oxford University Press and removed a quote saying ""Jollof rice is a subject of great debate in West Africa. Every country has its own version, and abhors "inauthentic* variations." A recipe from a recipe website is again being used as a source for a statement about the history of Jollof rice, and it doesn't even back the statement about being eaten with fried plantain t. If you do a Google books search[2] for its origin, you'll find conflicting statements, which isn't surprising as it doesn't seem likely that anyone can prove its origin. It's not that West Africa is too ambiguous, it's that the Senegambia Confederation, a short-lived body that no longer exists, is too specific. Doug Weller (talk) 05:27, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

• The University Press says "West Africa", it's appropriate to get a more local reliable source to specify the particular part of West Africa it originated from. The conflicting claims are mostly published by magazines, blogs etc. Do you have another reliable source from a West African country that states that "Jollof Rice" originates from somewhere else? If you can, then we have a reason to settle for "West Africa" as its origin. As long as the only "conflicting sources" we could get are unknown magazines and cookbooks, with no known credibility....we have no reason to choose University Press' ambiguous origin over Vanguard's more specific origin. Both University Press and Vanguard Newspaper are reliable sources. The Vanguard being a more local source, and more specific gives it a better source to be cited. These books on google books with conflicting information, can you please provide where they sourced their information from? Or prove the credibility of the books and their authors?--Jamie Tubers (talk) 10:58, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Books published by mainstream publishers generally are considered more reliable than newspaper columnists writing about a subject for which they have no qualifications. You seem to be saying that that doesn't matter, what's important is that it's a local newspaper giving a more specific source. You can look at the Google books link yourself, but it would be highly unusual for us to start taking sections out of a reliable source and trying to figure out if they used reliable sources, if that's what you mean. But you aren't asking that for the Vanguard column. Doug Weller (talk) 11:13, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

There's been a slow edit war over this for > 6 years! The OUP source is good because it a) describes it is as West African, rather than from any specific country and b) states that there is a controversy about it's origin. It's actually based on this article in The Guardian which itself is an RS but when it's quoted by OUP it becomes even more so. I'm in favour of Doug's version. SmartSE (talk) 12:45, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

This is another article in The Guardian stating that the origin is debated and this book (Stirring the Pot: A History of African Cuisine) also backs up that it's best described as West African. SmartSE (talk) 12:55, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

• I'm not saying OUP is unreliable. It's says "West Africa"....That is correct. But another reliable source says the part of west africa which it is from - Senegambia. So far, few reliable sources say "Senegambia", while no single reliable source claims anyother place; so there's absolutely no reason to make the origin ambiguous. It would have been acceptable, if West Africa had a homogenous culture or cuisine, but it is too disparate (and vast) a region to use it as an origin for a food that's not even eaten across the entire region. We might as well just add sengambia, and insert "disputed" in a bracket, like it is done with disputed claims on wikipedia.--Jamie Tubers (talk) 13:05, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

No, Vanguard fails WP:RS as I've said. No one can prove where it came from. Doug Weller (talk) 14:37, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

• Vanguard doesn't fail WP:RS. It is a major news outlet that makes sure of accuracy before publishing, much like every other major news outlet. How do you prove where something came from? How did Oxford prove that Jollof Rice is infact from West Africa?--Jamie Tubers (talk) 15:02, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

That's the thing about RS. Any newspaper might fail it for specific statement. Doug Weller (talk) 16:00, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Now at WP:RSN#Oxford University Press vs a management specialist's newspaper column & a recipe web site at Jollof rice. Doug Weller (talk) 13:53, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

There's a separate article on thieboudienne, where it is described as "a traditional dish from Senegal", with fish as a mandatory ingredient. Charleston red rice is an article on the Americanized dish of some sort of West African origin. Both contain some references that may be useful for this article. There are a lot of tomato and rice dishes; I'm not sure how we should divide them into articles. There is a generic Rice and beans article, a Rice and peas article which is about the same staple, but differently classified, and there are many more rice-and-bean-dish articles, like Gallo pinto (which is one of at least four articles on Latin American rice-and-beans dishes, five including Hoppin' John, and even has a similar origin dispute!). The Kushari article contains a list of rice-mix dishes. HLHJ (talk) 14:17, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

sources in nutrition section

Wellness Mama? Really? Neither of the sources for the arsenic claim look very convincing to me. I am not getting sucked into that issue or the one above though -- I am trying to improve Nigerian cuisine and came here to see if Jollof should be capitalized. Apparently the answer is who knows? Elinruby (talk) 09:07, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

what's a tea bush?

it doesn't seem to be the same thing as tea tree or bush tea. Leaving this as a note is all for now. If you can clarify please do Elinruby (talk) 10:46, 6 December 2016 (UTC)