Talk:Jonathan Alder/GA1

GA Review

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Will begin review shortly, see some lead issues though. Aboutmovies (talk) 09:43, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality:

   Initially, the early life is one big paragraph. There are a few areas that need some explanation/clarification. These are in hidden comments in the paragraphs.

   B. MoS compliance:

   Also, the birth and death places do not go in with the dates in the lead.

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. References to sources:

   B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

   Concerned a bit over the RootsWeb, source, I need to check on how its been used since it is in essence a primary source.

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   Nothing from War of 1812 to death, which is more than 1/3 of the life. Need something. Also, as ideally everything in the lead should be elsewhere (and this addresses the other lead issue above) the full death date and place should be in the body of the article.

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

   "great bravery" is a bit of a WP:PEACOCK term, and I would also remove "lovingly" from "lovingly cared".

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

   nothing in history

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

   no images license is proper

   B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

   I would think there are pictures that could be used in the legacy area, such as the marker for him, his cabin, or the high school.

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

   All looks good now. I added an appropriate image, but certainly do add the new images you have planned. I am passing the article.

• Squaw is considered an offensive term, so I removed it. I added hidden comments in a few places where clarification is needed. I also did some copy editing and MOS work, please double-check my work to ensure the sources back up what I wrote/altered. I re-removed the image (per below), but as there are images available (see those mentioned below), please add one. Then that's it. I will now place the article on hold, so you have about seven days to address those items. Great work so far, let me know if you have any questions. Aboutmovies (talk) 07:50, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
• I am now passing the article, good work. Aboutmovies (talk) 18:43, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

• • Thank you!!! - Adolphus79 (talk) 19:41, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Other comments

Comment

Hi there, I was asked to review the page for Wikiproject Biography and I saw a GA review started so I will simply comment here. I have edited the article for several issues I came across, but there are things left to address in addition to what Aboutmovies mentions (I already handled the birth/death places):

• The lead needs to add more to properly summarize content, a second paragraph could be added.
• Gloucester, New Jersey needs to be disambiguated.
• "After some time ..." - should be clarified or replaced
• "... Alder's surviving brother Paul, who wrote to inform Alder that the family was still alive." - Paul wrote to who? Please clarify or reword.
• Alder believed the tactic during the war to be unwise, but it is not clear why this is relevant. Was there a consequence? If there was it should be added more cleary, if there wasn't the part should be removed unless context is added.
• "and is still remembered today" - this sounds very general, it should either be cited or left out if naming the school is what makes him being remembered, as it is already stated.
• if nothing notable happened from the War of 1812 to his death it should be noted where and how he spend his spend his time, if it's known

Hekerui (talk) 13:47, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Thank you both, this is what I was looking for... I had done all I could to the article, and needed a couple sets of fresh eyes on it to see what else could be done... I will try to work on these issues over the course of the day today... - Adolphus79 (talk) 15:08, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

OK, I've gone over the article now and made (most of) the changes discussed, but there are a couple items that need further discussion...

• Rootsweb was not used for any of the context of the article, only for date confirmations (birth, death, marriage, children)...
• I have been unsuccessful so far in finding any information about Alder between the war and his death, I assume that he lived the rest of his live as an aging man. I know how bad assumption is, and that is why I have not written anything... If there is some way to write that he "just grew old and died" without sounding so cynical about it, please feel free to add that (I am still trying to find confirmation of this)...
• As far as images go, I have found pictures online and in books of his cabin, but am unsure as to exactly which cabin it is, and plan on going to the Madison County museum one day and taking a picture myself of the 1806 cabin they have on display... so images are forthcoming, indirectly...

I need to go run some errands right now, but will try to go over the article again with a fine tooth comb later... - Adolphus79 (talk) 15:41, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

OK, I think most all of the concerns have been fixed...

Paragraphs have been split, birth and death placed moved, post-war info added, NPOV concerns fixed, Rootsweb ref explained (above), and as I said above, I hope to get down to London to take a picture of the cabin (and maybe a pic of the marker also)... Hopefully a second review will find this article in better condition... Thank you, Hekerui, for the bulk of the fixes... please let me know if any further work is needed... I am very excited at the thought of this article, having already been my first DYK, possibly being my first GA also... - Adolphus79 (talk) 19:31, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

If you can't do the disambiguation, I don't think it's the biggest problem, depending on whether it is unclear in the literature as well. I fixed some other issues (also renamed "Settler" because it was not saying much) and put paragraphs back together. It should not all be one paragraph is what Aboutmovies meant, but also not too short and choppy. Also, for me you increased the image size - the sizes are dependent on individual computers and this is why they should not be fixed to a certain pixel width. Either this, or you entered a wrong pixel number. Hekerui (talk) 21:13, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

As to the paragraph, yes, not one paragraph, but not a bunch of little ones as well. Generally, 4-5 sentences per is a good range, but try to keep the info more related than just its about Alder. New problem. The image you added is a bit unclear on the copyright status. The page you downloaded it from says the image belongs to them, and it may. The description they give is unclear on when the sketch was drawn, as the ca. 1790-1799 could be viewed as the timeframe of the sketch itself, or the time frame of the subject matter. Search for the artist, the only one I came up with was a Canadian who died around 1950 (or was it 1958?). In that case, the image may still be in copyright. Unless you can find a release for the photo, a date of publication or when the artist died, it should be removed. However, I found this which is pre-1923. If you look at the images preview on that page (use the more function too), you can see a image of the guantlet which could be used, and there is likely a portrait of Tecumsah too. Just download the book and then copy the images from the PDF and paste them into a graphics program so you can change the file format from a bitmap. As to the rest of the review, I will get back to it tonight and finish it up, making adjustments for what has been done so far. Aboutmovies (talk) 22:26, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

OK, sorry about going overboard the paragraphs, I had split them up as different parts of the story... I know about the old 4-5 sentences rule (one of the few things I remember from high school)... I did not disambig Gloucester yet because I am not 100% sure which it is, and would rather have the disambig there (until I can maybe find out for sure), than to have it point to the wrong one... I have also removed the image for now, Hekerui had added it, and I assumed that it was OK. Like I said before, I plan on adding my own PD images as soon as I get a chance to take them, so I would assume the article is OK for the moment without any... thank you both for taking the time to help me... - Adolphus79 (talk) 22:53, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

I shouldn't have to bother with the copyright status of Commons images. Their rules are restrictive enough. Meh. Hekerui (talk) 00:32, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Just a note that I did re-add the image as one is better than nothing. I've updated the copyright tag accordingly on Commons, if you ever need help with image copyrights tgas in the future I'd be glad to lend a hand. §hep^Talk 04:36, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

That didn't solve the problem. For the life part, when did the author die? The only author by that name that I found F. Brigden died in 1956 (53 years ago). The date on the commons page does say ca. 1790-1799, but the website from where the image was taken does not indicate the creation date of the image (as discussed above). It indicates the time frame of the setting. This is a copyvio and I will now have it deleted from commons. Aboutmovies (talk) 06:48, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

(outdent) OK... I fixed the missing info comments within the article, and just called down to the Madison County Historical Society (where the 1806 cabin is)... I will be going down there this sunday (the 15th) to take my own photo of the cabin, and while I am down there will try to get a pic of the marker also... Other than the images, I think everything has been fixed... thank you for your help and helpful reviews... - Adolphus79 (talk) 16:49, 12 March 2009 (UTC)