Talk:Jordan Smith (musician)

Original artist / song notability column

Many years ago there were many intense debates on various talk pages related to American Idol and X Factor articles about table columns. The column "original artist" was how it appeared at first, but many people thought that in cases where the original artist was obscure and the song was made famous by someone else that the more well-known artist should be named instead. But this led to arguments for some songs over who was more responsible for the song being well known, ones that sometimes just came down to differences of opinion and not clear fact at all. So editors at each sets of articles came up with different solutions. Editors of the X Factor articles decided to leave out the column altogether. The songs all had hyperlinks to their own pages where people could read about who had recorded it if they wished and didn't already know. The table had the song title and that was enough. Editors of the American Idol pages decided that they wanted to keep the column and since the "original artist" header was the only one with objective criteria they opted for that, even though it meant sometimes naming obscure artists instead of more famous ones more closely associated with the song. The only other idea that was even really considered was a column that listed the song writers instead of any artists who had performed the songs before, but that was not a popular idea. But in the end editors at both sets of articles realized that some list like "song notability" was inherently subjective and could not avoid controversy, so it should not be used.

For this page, Michael English is the original artist for "Mary Did You Know", but his version did not chart and most people have never heard of him, so he didn't make the song notable. On the Emily Ann Roberts article it is claimed that "Blue Christmas" is notable because of Elvis Presley. But the song was first recorded by Doye O'Dell 16 years before Elvis and in the 16 years in between there were many other recordings of it, including one by Russ Morgan that was #11 on billboard 15 years before Elvis recorded it, one by Ernest Tubb that was #1 on Billboard 14 years before Elvis recorded it, and one by Hugo Winterhalter that was #9 on Billboard the same year as Tubb's version. The song was quite famous more than a decade before Elvis did it, so he is not the reason the song is notable. Now some might want to argue that today Elvis' version is best known and the song most closely associated with him, but then we get into the subjective problem mentioned above. So if you want to know the original artist it's O'Dell and if you want to know who made the song notable it is Morgan or maybe Tubb, but not Elvis. And for "Mary Did You Know" I have no idea who can truly be credited with making it notable, but English was the original.

Wikipedia should deal only in matters of fact, not opinion, especially when it is a tangential point at best. Smith and Roberts sang the song named. Other people who performed it before is little more than trivia and available by clicking the song link. The articles for The Voice pages don't list any previous artists, original or otherwise, so I would recommend that the pages for the people who appeared on the shows should do the same. If that is good enough for the main show pages and its good enough for all the X Factor pages why not here too? But if there has to be a list then "original artist", even if it names obscure people, is the best choice for avoiding subjectivity problems. 142 and 99 (talk) 03:40, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

I am one of those who said that these columns are very unnecessary – especially when they have "hyperlinks to their own pages where people could read about who had recorded it." And as I also said in the discussion: The whole reason for this type of column is so that when a reader sees a song title and they think: "Now where do I know that song from?", then it supposedly shows who is best known for singing it. But, of course, that is subjective, and I would say that the column should be nixed.

Incidentally, Michael English's original version was charted, but it was on the Christian charts (though maybe not Billboard's -- and it's still the best version in my opinion). --Musdan77 (talk) 06:26, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

I was one of the very few who liked listing the songwriters, but my second choice was no column at all, so I would be happy to support removal of the entire column here and on the Emily Ann Roberts page, especially since that is standard at the main pages for The Voice articles. Does that sound good to you too? 142 and 99 (talk) 13:11, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

Yes. The only time the name of the songwriter(s) would be helpful is if there's no article for the song, but that could be added in the song column in parentheses. --Musdan77 (talk) 18:32, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

Ok. I'll remove the column here and on the Emily Ann Roberts page. 142 and 99 (talk) 21:57, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

Just a slight correction, American Idol pages stopped listing the original artist's name from season 11, because of the issue with people keep changing the artist's name. There is a column for original artists only for particular theme weeks when the contestant named an artist. Apart from those exceptions, it is best to leave it out to avoid future argument. Hzh (talk) 15:57, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Order number?

Under the chart in Non-competition performances the first column is Order number. I can't tell what that means or why it's relevant to anything? Daya — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dayaware (talk • contribs) 15:52, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

It's episode.order of performance—and, honestly, I have no idea why or whether any of it is relevant. 🖖ATinySliver/^ATalkPage 03:28, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Meantime, I've cut down the size of the performances table, something more in line with Amy Vachal. (That thing was massive!) 🖖ATinySliver/^ATalkPage 03:36, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

some feedback

This sentence - "During his time on The Voice, he set new sales marks on Billboard charts, and three of his songs bumped Adele from the top spot on iTunes.." isn't very informing and seems like puffing up the guy, which he doesn't need.

Instead I think it should state exactly what records he broke and that for an unknown artist it was surprising to overtake the top spot. That it was Adele isn't that important, the top spot is was is most relevant. Dayaware (talk) 02:41, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

The lead section is for summarizing the points later made in the article, which it does. Did you have a specific suggestion? 🖖ATinySliver/^ATalkPage 03:33, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Why are iTunes sales relevant

• The short answer: because they're not irrelevant.

• The long answer: iTunes sales are both indicative of how an artist is performing among the public as compiled by the world's largest music retailer, and of how well an artist performed on The Voice. Those figures—and, in later rounds, where those figures place them on the sales list—are used to help determine who moves on to following rounds and who eventually wins the season.

It is true that iTunes is technically not a "chart" per BADCHARTS' admonition against "one specific retailer". However, when numerous reliable, secondary sources mention iTunes sales—and particularly in the context of why they matter—and those sources are cited rather than iTunes itself, the data is pertinent and encyclopedic, and should not be removed. —ATS 🖖 talk 19:30, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

Harry Styles

Why does he look like he has been a wheelchair before with two big wheels on either side of him? That's The Voice! --2606:A000:4AC8:1100:3DF1:346D:5994:D999 (talk) 21:36, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

I think Martha Braebuck in Loamhedge?

I think stroller or just learned how to walk or fell while just learned how to walk or getting out of the stroller? Two thighs? --2606:A000:4AC8:1100:3DF1:346D:5994:D999 (talk) 21:38, 16 February 2018 (UTC)