Talk:Jorge Cadete

Edit war

Can we please stop this stupid edit war? No progress is being made by either side. Can you discuss both your sides here, and we'll try come up with the most appropriate solution. Peanut4 (talk) 21:21, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Sure, no problem (in discussing it at least). As the WP pages concerning the subject clearly states that the area in which Cadete was born was known as Portuguese East Africa at the time, it should be the information shown. However, I would accept a solution as: Jorge Cadete born in Portuguese East Africa (now Mozambique). Like with Carlos Queiroz. User:Maracana

No problem! As the WP page clearly states the territory was always called Mozambique. But more important than that, the Portuguese Constitution of 1933 (and before it the Constitution of 1911) states, in its article 1, that the Portuguese territory (Colonial Empire) includes, besides the European territory (Mainland and the islands of Azores and Madeira) the following territories "Cabo-Verde, Guiné, Angola, Moçambique, S. João Baptista de Ajudá, Estado da Índia, Macau, Timor". As you see, there is no mention of any "Portuguese Eastern Africa". I am willing to send a scan of that article of the constitution if need be. Therefore, the WP article on Portuguese East Africa is misleading and incorrect. The term Portuguese East Africa (África Oriental Portuguesa) was used, yes, but informally and not very much, I cannot imagine many people saying "tomorrow I am going to the "África Oriental". This is the reason why I cannot agree with the expression "born in Portuguese East Africa (now Mozambique" because he was born in Mozambique... always. By the way, the "fascist" Constitution of 1933 was replaced by the Constitution of 1976 when democracy was restored in 1974 and then the colonies became independent (most of them, Estado da Índia (Goa) had been de facto integrated in India, Macau was integrated in China and East Timor was first annexed by Indonesia before becoming independent. So if want to use Portuguese East Africa in an official capacity go ahead but you know that you are wrong. Teixant (talk) 00:19, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

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Finally I had some time to complete my argument regarding the unofficial character of the "África Oriental Portuguesa/Portuguese East Africa. Below, I am transcribing the text of article 1 of the Portuguese Constitution of 1933 (called by some the Fascist Constitution as it was modelled after the Italian Fascist Constitution). First the text is in Portuguese and it is followed by my translation into English:

Constituição Política da Republica Portuguesa
Parte 1
Das garantias fundamentais
Título 1
Da Nacão Portuguesa
Artigo 1º O território de Portugal é o que actualmente lhe pertence e compreende:
1º Na Europa: o Continenete e Arquipélago da Madeira e dos Açores;
2º Na África Ocidental: Arquipálago de Cabo Verde, Guiné, São Tomé e Príncipe e suas dependências, S. João Batista de Ajudá, Cabinda e Angola;
3º Na África Oriental: Moçambique;
4º Na Ásia: Estado da índia, Macau e Timor e respectivas dependências.

Political Constitution of the Portuguese Republic
Part 1
On fundamental rights
Title 1
On the Portuguese Nation
Article 1 - The territory of Portugal is what currently belongs to her and includes:
1st In Europe: Mainland and Azores and Madeira Islands;
2nd In Western Africa: Cape Verde Islands, Guinea, S.Tome and Principe and its dependences, S. João Batista de Ajudá, Cabinda and Angola;
3rd In Eastern Africa: Mozambique;
4th In Asia: India, Macao and Timor and their respecyive dependences.

So, Eastern Africa is a location for a colony, Mozambique, not the colony itself. Of course, this implies that the Wikipedia article on "Portuguese East Africa" needs a deep revision..... Teixant (talk) 12:19, 24 July 2008 (UTC)