Talk:José Cobo Cano/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: Sammi Brie (talk · contribs) 06:32, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

I have reviewed now 51 Good Article candidates this month. The copy in this one presents the most issues of any I have seen in August. I am sympathetic to why (I am also a Spanish speaker but an English native speaker), but a lot of changes are necessary. There is also a question of timing because Cobo Cano is to be named cardinal in about 30 days. This momentous event will likely spark a significant amount of news coverage in multiple languages. In addition, some spot checks reveal sections that need bolstering for source reasons.

While I am not failing the page immediately, I wonder if a better route to take would be to make these changes now; wait to incorporate any new sources from his naming as cardinal, which will likely extend the page and result in new content including in early life sections; submit the page to WP:GOCE (the Guild of Copy Editors) when this is done for further improvements to the copy; and then come back to GAN. Let me know what you think. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 06:32, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

Oh, wow. That's quite an achievement. Spanish is my third language, that's probably why there might be some translation inaccuracies, but I don't think it's that unbearable. I can quickly fix it, no worries.

In my opinion, José Cobo being made cardinal won't spark a lot of new information for two reasons: he is going to be made cardinal along with 20 other prelate, so the focus won't be specifically on him; and pretty much all the Early life information was already covered when he was named Archbishop of Madrid. Nevertheless, if I do see that a lot of new content was made available, I can always submit the article to GOCE. SpaceEconomist 192 18:37, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

Alright. It looks better now. @SpaceEconomist192: I would like to see the bulleted list reformatted into prose; it would help a lot. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 22:35, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

@Sammi Brie: thanks. Done! SpaceEconomist 192 22:51, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

@SpaceEconomist192 Is there more info on The school trusted his account and indicated plans to relocate the teacher abroad; Cobo strongly objected to and criticized this decision. why Cobo objected? He could have objected in favor of or against the teacher (sounds like against). Also, [11] contains no info on Cobo, so another ref is needed in that location to justify that part of the statement. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 02:04, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

@Sammi Brie: The reference for that is actually the one in the next sentence; I've cited both to prevent future confusion. It doesn't say why he objected, though it does report that Cobo said: «No tienen compasión, ni con la víctima ni con los padres. La actuación del obispado de Bilbao también ha sido bochornosa». Maybe this could hint the reader on why Cobo objected. What do you think? SpaceEconomist 192 02:12, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

@SpaceEconomist192 That'd be great; I think it's worth noting that he called the bishop's handling of the situation "shameful". Ping me once it's integrated into text. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 02:25, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

@Sammi Brie: Done!

Pings don't work without signatures, SpaceEconomist192. Made some more tweaks and passed. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 06:19, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Copy changes

This article has one major problem behind nearly all its copy issues. It still sounds like Spanish. There are areas that will need fairly extensive rewording.

•  Additional information needed. Could you be more specific on why you think it sounds Spanish?

Lead

• The lead could stand to be at least two more substantial paragraphs.

• Y Done.

• social issues departments What is a social issues department? This phrasing is so awkward as to confuse me.

•  Resolved. I was trying to say that he has overseen departments of pertaining to social causes, like Migration, Prison Pastoral Care, etc. I've reworded the phrase to «...has overseen various social-issue-related departments within the Spanish Episcopal Conference...»

Early life

• in the Spanish municipality of Sabiote, Jaén, Andalusia "Spanish" is probably redundant as he has been introduced as Spanish in the lead.

• Y Done.

• He earned a licenciate degree on civil law from the Complutense University of Madrid in 1988. "Licentiate" has two Ts, not two Cs, in English, per the linked article.

• Y Done.

• "On" should be "in".

• Y Done.

• He entered the Madrid Conciliary Seminary [es] and San Damaso the same year, where he completed his ecclesiastical studies. Flip the order so that the clause after the comma modifies places, not times. That same year, he entered the Madrid Conciliary Seminary [es] and San Damaso, where he completed his ecclesiastical studies.

• Y Done.

Priesthood

• His sacerdotal ordination was on 23 April 1994, by cardinal-archbishop Ángel Suquía Goicoechea; being incardinated in the Archdiocese of Madrid. Consider an active voice sentence. He was ordained as a priest in the Archdiocese of Madrid on 23 April 1994 by Ángel Suquía Goicoechea. The current sentence structure is unidiomatic.

• Y Done.

• As minister he has taken part in the following duties: Try As a priest, he has served in a variety of roles:

• Partially implemented. Maintained minister per sources wording.

• a catholic evangelist Capitalize "Catholic"

• Y Done.

• Consider wrapping the foreign names in {{tl|lang|es|(name)|italic=no}}. They don't need to be italicized, as they are proper nouns. (See MOS:FOREIGNITALIC.)

• Y Done.

Bishophood

• On 29 December 2017, he was named auxiliary bishop of the Archdiocese of Madrid by Carlos Osoro Sierra, with his head office in Baeza. We have a major mistranslation error. "Sede titular" has been given its modern meaning here, "head office". Reading the original makes clear that this is a titular see: Roman Catholic Diocese of Baeza. This should read On 29 December 2017, Cobo Cano was named auxiliary bishop of the Archdiocese of Madrid by Carlos Osoro Sierra; concurrently, he was named the titular bishop of Baeza.

• Y Done.

• Like other bishops, Cobo had to elect a motto and a coat of arms. In this context, elegir definitely should be translated as "select" or "choose".

• Y Done.

• Is the "Virgin of the Star" the same as es:Virgen de la Estrella (Coria del Río) ?

• Yes it is, I've added a red wikilink with the corresponding Spanish article.

• "As auxiliar bishop" that's auxiliary with a Y in English

• Y Done.

• In the same institution he is a member of the Migration Department, since 2019 and of the Episcopal Commission for Social Pastoral and Human Promotion, since 2020 Is he still in these posts after being named archbishop? This section will need rewording depending on the answer; both commas are unneeded.

• Y Done. He is.

• Cobo strongly objected to and criticized their decision. "Their" but "the school" is an agreement issue. Maybe "its"? Maybe this and the preceding sentence should be joined with a semicolon, too.

• Y Done. Changed to «this».

• On 29 June of the same year This reeks of the "del mismo año" construction that is not as common in English.

•  Resolved. It now reads «On 29 June 2023...»

• At 56 years old when elected, he will have an, higher than usual, mandate of 19 years. Try Appointed bishop at the age of 56, his maximum term of 19 years would be longer than usual.

• Y Done.

• This profile fits with the progressive line that has marked the Pope Francis pontificate and it is believed to have played a substantial role in his appointment.

• Where Spanish would use línea (e.g. línea electoral), we would use "stance".
• Y Done.
• "the Pope Francis pontificate" maybe "Francis's pontificate"
• Y Done.
• Comma after pontificate per User:Sammi Brie/Commas in sentences
• Y Done.

• Earlier in April 2023, His Highness had also made other contentious nominations, Francisco José Prieto Fernández [es] and Jorge Ignacio García Cuerva, both auxiliary bishops were elevated to the positions of archbishops of Santiago de Compostela and Buenos Aires, respectively.

• Reword to "Earlier in 2023"
• Y Done.
• "His Highness" probably is not the right tone for this article.
• Y Done.
• Change the second comma to a colon
• Y Done.
• Add a comma after "bishops" to complete the appositive.
• Y Done.

• In that same month, You can just say That same month,

• Y Done.

• In an interview at World Youth Day 2023 in Lisbon, Cobo criticized the church for manipulating and falling to ideologic interests. He said that the church is being used to gain votes and to reaffirm positions. This definitely got mangled between the Spanish or Portuguese in your head and the English in the article. He said, Mais que uma pastoral, há uma manipulação da Igreja para que responda a interesses ideológicos. Há interesses muito variados, económicos, internacionais… Perhaps, In an interview at World Youth Day 2023 in Lisbon, Cobo criticized the church as being manipulated by "ideological interests" and as an instrument to win votes and reaffirm political positions.

•  Fixed. Ops!

Depth

For an Archbishop of Madrid and a Cardinal-designate, is this really all that is available? I am concerned that there will likely be additional coverage, probably quite substantial, in English-, Spanish-, and Italian-language media in about 30 days when he is named cardinal. This should provide additional material throughout the article. It also raises a concern about the page's immediate stability, though I would imagine this would subside in about 45 days or so.

I've spent a considerable amount of days searching for sources for this article and I'm pretty confident that all the important information is covered. The only potential lacuna is Italian sources, though I doubt they are as extensive as the Spanish ones.

I've two additional lines, one about Cobo not being on the terna sent to the Pope and instead he was personally chosen by him and the other about a polemic about his stance on homosexual marriage.

Spot checks

• 4: Article in Religión Confidencial. Y
• Licenciado en Derecho por la Universidad Complutense en 1988, entró en el seminario de Madrid ese mismo año. This covers the year he graduated from the UCM and when he entered seminary.
• José Cobo realizó los estudios de Ciencias Morales en el Instituto Redentorista, vinculado a la Universidad Comillas. Un Instituto en el que históricamente ha jugado un papel clave el teólogo Marciano Vidal. La biografía, como tal, no afirma que hubiera conseguido el título de Licenciado en Teología Moral. You've done well to use "pursued" as the article notes the biography does not specify if he obtained a degree.
• This announcement also included the appointments of Santos Montoya [es] and Jesús Vidal Chamorro [es]. There is nothing in this source about this item. Please find another citation here.

•  Added

• This is only part of the citation, but I think La pregunta que muchos se hacen ahora es si José Cobo es un sacerdote y un obispo progresista, y qué significa eso de ser progresista. helps justify the citation. Clearly his progressive stance attracted attention among observers.
• 11: News article from the Comillas Universidad Pontificia. It mentions the synod without dates: miembro de la Comisión Permanente del II Sínodo diocesano and his role in the CEE: en la Conferencia Episcopal Española ha sido responsable del Departamento de Pastoral Penitenciaria, y actualmente ejercía como responsable del Departamento de Migraciones desde que fue designado en el año 2019 There is no mention of the DPP or synod dates; is another source available? Y

• Replaced

• 18: El secreto a voces del nombramiento del obispo auxiliar de Madrid, José Cobo Cano, como arzobispo de la archidiócesis de Madrid, parece haber excedido las instrucciones canónicas de discreción y silencio pontificio recogidos en la Secreta continere, del Papa san Pablo VI. Se afirma, de hecho, que el anuncio de la retirada de Carlos Osoro y elección de su obispo auxiliar como titular de la archidiócesis de Madrid, se hará efectivo tras la toma de posesión del nuevo pastor de Alcalá de Henares, el próximo 12 de junio. Y
• 22: Cobo era hasta ahora uno de los obispos auxiliares de Madrid y con su nombramiento se rompe una tradición que se ha venido cumpliendo escrupulosamente en los últimos cinco mitrados matritenses: llegar a la capital tras el paso por un arzobispado. El que será nuevo metropolitano este lunes ni tan siquiera ha sido obispo residencial, poseyendo el escaso bagaje de cinco años como auxiliar. Y
• 26: Article in La Nación mentions this as a controversial appointment: La controversia en torno a la designación del sacerdote Jorge García Cuerva como nuevo arzobispo de Buenos Aires de parte del papa Francisco... Y

Images

The article contains two images: the CEE-provided headshot (CC-licensed) and a CC-BY-2.5-licensed coat of arms recreating his styling. Both are appropriately used. Encouragement (optional for GA): Add alt text.

•  Added

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.