Talk:José Manuel Barroso

Untitled

I know wikipedia is a place where POV writing has no place, except in the talk pages. So, here it goes. I dislike the guy! Dislike! Dislike! Dislike! There, i'm feeling better now. Muriel Gottrop 16:39, 1 Nov 2003 (UTC)

• just a funny adenda: the nickname Cherne (the fish) was given to him after a speech made by his wife in a political meeting. She read - in loving terms - the initial lines of a poem talking about the dream of the fish, and encouraged the voters in following this dream of this fish - the man himself. She forgot to mention that in the last lines of the poem, the fish becomes a madman(fish)... Muriel Gottrop

due to recent events, (barrosso is probably resign as a PM and become president of the european comission) this article will need an update - --Cyprus2k1 12:18, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)

• He will be president in October, if he is assigned (probably) and not today. He will have more powers than Romano Prodi. He is good in foreign matters (I remember him in the case of east Timor, he launched the subject internationally, many people voted him for his work has a forreign minister in a previous government, me included), not so good prime-minister (bad choices in social and universitary issues, but excellent in finantial), but the man works in what he believes I've talked to him, when he was in elections. Has he being a "luckly bastard" he really his. But Europe also gains a concensus leader (so it is also lucky), cause Portugal is part of the Euro and in shengen, important subjects for most European member-states, and also friend of the brits, the french and the germans. -Pedro 16:12, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Question over Iraq

Muriel, I dont know if the majority of the Portuguese "really" opposed the invasion. I think the majority of the people nether opposed nether support, they didnt really gave a damn about that issue, that's not our problem, we only have police officers there, and no army (because of Presidential objection). It is true that the president and the other parties opposed, but they dont represent the people as you know. Data that I saw showed that "some" of the population even supported the prime minister because of commercial issues, especially the question of wines, that everyone supposed that the country would gain new markets with this alliance with the US. I don't see anything. Portuguese wines continue to win most wine competitions, but the market is still very small. Fortunnaly, Muslim people have a good image of Portuguese people, and the relationship was allways peaceful, and many Muslims in Daman, India still refer as being Portuguese, even if they don't speak Portuguese, and they are not Catholics. That same peaceful relation happens elsewhere, there was even Portuguese immigration to Iraq, during Saddam's regime.-Pedro 22:06, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

• I disagree about most Portuguese not opposing the war. When the war began, I only knew ONE person who was in favor - everyone else among my co-workers, friends, even several non-political Portuguese forums saw it as an obvious oil grab by Bush and co. Of course, since we're talking about us Portuguese, "opposing" means realizing it's a bad idea, and saying so - not protests or anything like that. Dehumanizer 11:41, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
  • According to this Gallup Poll, taken before the start of the war, 53% of Portuguese opposed the war under any circumstances, 29% opposed it without a UN resolution, and only 10% supported it. The Wikipedia article on Worldwide government positions on war on Iraq claims that "In no country other than the U.S. did opinion polls show a majority of the population was in favor of the war when it started." The protests in Portugal may not have been as great as in Spain, Italy and Britain, but then the Portuguese government, while supportive, was not lending material support to the invasion in the same way that these countries were. Blorg 13:08, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• I'm not saying that the Portuguese supported it or in favour of it! Who in its right mind would support a war? People didnt care about that, and they really didnt! The poll should have " I'm Against, I support and I dont care" to be acceptable. Everyone say that it was in fact an oil war, me included, but that doesnt mean that people are against it, or support it. -Pedro 00:44, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

As polls as the one cited above show, the vast majority of the Portuguese people indeed opposed the war. The fact that the public manifestations weresmaller than the massive English and Spanish ones was related with the non-direct involvement of the Government in the invasion (all they did was to provide a place for the summit between Aznar, Blair and Bush to be held - the Azores) and, to a debatable extent, with the usually smaller nature of Portuguese manifestations when comparing with those of those countries. Just to reiterate what Blorg said.

Several pools in many Portuguese newspapers and tv shows showed that the LARGE MAJORITY, over 80% of the population was against the invasion. Never ever ever a single result gave more then 50% in favour of the war. ALL were +And even nowadays people are against. In fact because of that issue many people dislike Barroso and don't like him to be the UE president despite the fact that he is Portuguese. Comparing the size of public manifestations is not a way to compare what people think, first because Portugal has only 10 million citizens and England and Spain have a LOT more and second because people in Portugal don't usually do that kind of manifestations which are common in other countries. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.39.106.195 (talk) 21:22, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Controversy

Why doesn't the European Union force all members to sign some sort of Anti-comintern pact? It is outrageous the president of the EU is a communist

• Are you crazy? Or just trolling? Durão comes from PSD, a right-wing party in Portugal. Dehumanizer 19:00, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

actualy before that he was member of MRPP a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRPP

I see nothing here yet about the Latsis scandal, or about the EP's forthcoming censure motion against Barroso. Should I add something myself? There's some recent news coverage of the situation here: [1] Twilde 17/5/05

I think that info is unrelieable, never heard of that. Comming from a anti-European party we can expect all. Besides Barroso is very faar from being a communist believe me lol -Pedro 14:24, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

Which info is unreliable? It really is the case that 79 MEPs from a wide range of countries and parties have signed a call for a censure motion on Barroso, and that this guarantees a debate on the motion. The debate is due to be held ina few days time. If you don't believe this I'm sorry but that's not my fault! Whether or not Barroso has done anything wrong, the censure motion is a part of his biography and the facts should be included in this article. On the other hand, if you meant the claim that Barroso is a communist, I completely agree with you. Obviously that claim is nonsense - he is from a rightwing party. However, no anti-European party was responsible for this claim - it was just somebody anonymous who posted it on this discussion page. Twilde 21/5/05

Article Title

• Shouldn't this article be titled José Barroso according to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names)? (If I understand the Portuguese naming convention correctly, Durão is his mother's surname.) PatrikR 17:23, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)
  • I wish Muriel could be here to clarify the matter. (She's currently in Namibia). If my understanding is correct, the Iberian custom is to use both the father's name and the mother's name. Now, I'm confused: I know that the Spanish custom is personal name(s)==>father's name==>mother's name. Is the Portuguese custom the same, or the reverse? It would be great if somebody could clarify this. At any rate, I think the title should stay as is because that is what he is universally known as, even in the English-speaking world.
    • Yes, as I understand it, the Portuguese naming custom is reverse compared to the Spanish... And I wouldn't say both surnames is universal. Google results: 8940 for "josé barroso", 2400 for "josé durão barroso" PatrikR 21:40, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)
      • Looking at google news, most British sources seem to call him "Jose Barroso" or "Jose Manuel Barroso". I'm not sure what's standard in other English-speaking countries, as few seem to have articles on him that show up on the google news search. john k 22:50, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)
        • I'm Portuguese, so here goes. This guy is usually referred to, here, as "Durão Barroso" (newspapers, TV) or even just "Durão" (casual conversation). In Portugal, well-known people, if they have a less common name, are usually known by that name. Other cases: Cavaco ("Cavaco Silva" in the press), Figo, Guterres. Dehumanizer 10:49, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
          • Thank you for that reply. Perhaps, then, you could answer this question: Is the formal order Given name==>Father's name==>Mother's name (as in Spanish), or is it the reverse, as PatrickR believes? David Cannon 11:48, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
            • Reverse. My last 2 surnames come from my father, and I also have a surname in the middle (some of us Portuguese have looong names - 5 words or more) from my mother. In Durão's case, while "Barroso" surely comes from his father, "Durão" may come from either. Yes, it's complicated. :) Dehumanizer 11:57, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Portuguese names have a maximum of 4 words. Five if you are a women and get married gaining the name of the husband): name1 name2(optional) name_mother name_father. Some names like "castelo Branco" is considered has one, because it is a single name. It is forbitten to have bigger names, because of that was usual in the monarchy. Nobles often had tons of names. -Pedro 00:36, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• I am Portuguese, I am neither a woman nor married and I have five names. Cigsandalcohol 00:22, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

• I am also Portuguese, male, and have 5 names (two first names, my grandmother's family name, my mother's family name and my father's family name, by this order), and so does my brother, my father, and my uncles. While it is not that common, there are people with 7 names and more. The son of the throne heir (if Portugal suddenly became a monarchy, that is) has surely more than 8 names. Having a lot of names is posh. On the subject matter of Durão Barroso's international name, he said in the first press conference, as he was appointed, that while he was usually known as Durão Barroso in Portugal (it is very, very common for people who achieve a certain notoriety to become known by their last two names, namely politicals and professors, for precise identificacion in their work area), he was open-minded towards the name the press would choose. José Barroso was the choice because it ommited Durão, very hard to pronounce by most non-portuguese speakers (the ão is a nasal diphtong). It was still a quite awkward, long explanaition of the portuguese pronounciation of José (J as in cloSure, O as in tOO, S as in faSe, E as in pEt) to prevent international press of reading it in the (very different) Spanish fashion. So, the title should probably be renamed to Jose Barroso, yes. [i should have read the whole discussion page before posting, sorry for being redundant]

• • I also have five names. No, Portuguese names are not like in Spain. Here the rule is like Name + Last Surname. Dehumanizer is right: when people have an uncommon surname, like Durão, we tend to use it. And there's also families that go by two surnames, like the Pacheco Pereira or the Vasco da Gama. In those cases, it's Name + Two Last Names. 83.240.239.233 19:35, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Attempt to clear up

The European Commission website has him as José Manuel Barroso. Most other Wikipedias seem to have gone with José Manuel Durão Barroso, except interestingly the Portuguese one which has simply Durão Barroso. To avoid confusion, and since we give the full name at the very start of the article, I would prefer to move it to José Manuel Durão Barroso with all conceivable alternatives as redirects. It would also be good to have a note on pronounciation. If any Portuguese contributors who are familiar with the IPA would like to have a go that would be great, and better than the unhelpful ad-hoc pronounciation guides Wikipedia is plagued with. If no one knows IPA put an approximation on the talk page and I'll try and come up with my guess at IPA for the article. British TV and radio seem to say his name differently every time, sometimes pronouncing his first name as if it was Spanish which I'm sure is wrong, and then we sometimes hear variations sounding like Barroosoo for his surname, which I am inclined to think is closer to Portuguese reality than the normal English attempt to say Barroso. All this is a stab in the dark though: my knowledge of Portuguese extends to the word "obrigado" and nothing else. I look forward to a reply clearing up some of these matters, as we need a good extensive and accurate article on this guy. He is after all now an important political figure for nearly half a billion people. Obrigado. — Trilobite (Talk) 17:07, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The move to the full name is in my view a good idea. In Portugal, politicians tend to be known just by their surnames like Santana Lopes or Cavaco Silva, and thats why this guy is Durão Barroso in the wiki.pt (but there are exceptions like the president Jorge Sampaio). I bet he himself is not sure about what he should be called. He is used of course to the Durão Barroso, but now apparently he is required to add a first name - which one?!?! Fortunately his name is very short (for portuguese standards). So, i would make the move and organize redirects for the other combinations. muriel@pt 09:45, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I tried to make the move but there has been more than one edit to the target so it wouldn't go. If you're an admin you could delete the redirect at José Manuel Durão Barroso and then move the article there. — Trilobite (Talk) 14:33, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Done. David Cannon 00:58, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The reason for the change from Durão Barroso to José Manuel is simply that "Durão" is a very hard word to pronounce to non-portuguese speakers. That really is all there is to it!

• No it isnt. Pronunce it has "Doorang" or try this one: "Doorang'ung". I often hear English speakers pronunce "Barroso", has "barousou".... It is very different from the real name. so I dont know what is the hardest: "Durão" or "barroso"... -Pedro 00:53, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • IPA added. -Pedro 01:20, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
    • Thanks for adding the IPA, Pedro. The pronunciation problem is solved! — Trilobite (Talk) 15:04, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
      • Added audio file with the pronunciation, I hope it is a helpful complement in that area. Cigsandalcohol 00:29, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

The UE has it as José Manuel Barroso because of the ~ signal. you can check it on newspapers he adopted it because of it, it was to simplify because of the ã nothing more. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.39.93.44 (talk) 21:35, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Genealogical question

Is anybody able to tell me whether or not Durão Barroso is a descendant of Pedro Gomez De Barroso (born c.1227, in Portugal), Fernan Perez de Barroso (b. 1252 in Toledo, Spain) or of Sancha Fernandez de Barroso (b. 1282, also in Toledo)? I've been doing some research (for another project, but will put it on Wikipedia too if anything comes of it) on the genealogy of George W. Bush, and have found these Barroso names in the family tree. I'm trying to establish whether in fact these two individuals are related, or whether the namesake is coincidental. Thanks!David Cannon 21:29, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

• Hi David! Barroso is a very common name in Portugal, so its hard to establish a conection just with it. Dont break my heart telling me that George Bush has Portuguese ancestors!!! muriel@pt 11:14, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)

• • Thanks Muriel! Yes, there's no accounting for who might be related to whom, is there. It almost makes me scared to look at my own family tree ... David Cannon 09:19, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Did he really had Portuguese ancestors? what a lucky country we are :|

some help to Barroso ancestors: his Parents (LOL) father: Luis António Saraiva Barroso * 1922 Mother: Maria Elisabeth Freitas Durão * 1922 -Pedro 01:03, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for that, Pedro! I'll look into it. The reason for my interest is that I've been doing some research into how many of the world's leading historical and political figures are related to one another, often in unexpected ways. Bush indeed has Barroso ancestors (from both Portugal and Spain); whether Durão Barroso shares these same ancestors, or whether it's just a namesake, is something I'll have to look into. It is strange, I know, but the more one delves into genealogies of politicians, the more they come to resemble one big family. Maybe that's why politicians so often have an "us versus them" mentality ("them" meaning ordinary people). David Cannon 01:19, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Language Skills

Barroso's english language skills are far from fluent.

His academic career continued as an Assistant Professor in the Law School of the University of Lisbon and at Georgetown University and Georgetown's Edmund A. Walsh School of Foreign Service in Washington, D.C., where he did research for a Ph.D. He is a 1998 graduate of the . BacGeorgetown Leadership Seminark in Lisbon, Barroso became Director of the Department for International Relations at Lusíada University.

this passage may wrongly lead to the conclusion he "had an academic career" or obtained some kind of degree in the US. I have no record of it--139.18.144.64 21:41, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

On the other hand his French is almost immaculate. These kills were decisive for him gaining the support from the French speaking lobby and reach the presidency.

Religion

Hey, Durão isn't Catholic! LOL He even was a communist once! Velho 21:10, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Durão was a MARXIST-LENINIST MRPP MAOIST when that was in style, he later became a Catholic anti-communist when Maoism became unfashionable.

Very true Durão is as catholic as Lenin

Wife

Is there enough information to write about his wife? We have an image but I haven't seen much in the way of data. - J Logan ^t: 12:16, 18 August 2007 (UTC) isn't worth it, she's ugly —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.39.93.44 (talk) 21:30, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Scandal in August 2007

The Portugese State Prosecutor has come into possession of documents proving illegal financement of Barroso's party during the '02 campaign. The money source appears to be a construction company which obtained with Barroso's forceful lobbying a contract to build a highway in Bulgaria. The procedural irregularities were previously reported to the European Commission which stated that these are internal affairs out of its competence. Spokepersons for the Commission adopted the same position regarding the current scandal.91.92.179.156 12:09, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Barroso = Typical crooked "third-world" style Portuguese politician placed as head of the European Commission under pressure from the neo-con Bush administration. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.243.2.120 (talk) 10:14, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

Ancestors and "family tree"

No other article on a President of the European Commission has that kind of information, which is absolutely useless for any Wikipedian or other. Genealogical curiosities aren't encyclopedic. Velho (talk) 02:50, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

I disagree. It's meaningless to say what other EC presidents' articles have or have not, since all of them suck compared to this one. Read Wikipedia:Other stuff exists anyway. I see from your contrib log that you're on some sort of crusade against family trees. The status quo in this article is to include them. I think the names of relatives is very relevant (and "encyclopedic") information. We must reach a new consensus here if the family tree is to be removed from this article. - SSJ ☎ 04:35, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm certainly not in a crusade, except against a ridiculization of articles on Portuguese people.
You think that family trees' information is relevant. Would you care to say why? It gives no information on what the subject thinks, does or simply is. When relatives are not subjects of Wikipedia's articles themselves, it doesn't even say where the subjects come from.
These «family trees» are meaningless collections of names, perhaps useful in genealogical books and sites, but not in an encyclopedia. Moreover, these «family trees» are indeed the expression of a PoV, namely that «famliy is important» and «genealogy is important». Both are unacceptable. Velho (talk) 18:22, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

So you think only people with famous ancestors deserve family trees in their articles? I.e. only royal family trees should be on Wikipedia? I do not concur. I think the names of ancestors are 100% relevant in biographical articles. It's also common practice. Your argument about including information of respective families in biographical articles being a biased choice, is possibly the silliest notion I have ever heard on a Wikipedia talk page. No offense. If you bitterly hate the very existence of family trees on wikipedia (or want a deep and fundamental debate on what a family tree is supposed to do), you should probably take your arguments to this talk page. If other editors agree with you (i.e. a new consensus is reached), perhaps a notice will be added to the template, saying PS: ONLY PEOPLE WITH PERSONAL WIKIPEDIA ARTICLES SHOULD BE INCLUDED IN FAMILY TREES. BIOGRAPHICAL ARTICLES OF PERSONS WITH NON-CELEBRITY FAMILY MEMBERS SHALL NOT CONTAIN THIS FAMILY TREE TEMPLATE. Good luck. If you do not succeed, please do not continue to remove the family tree in this article without a consensus. - SSJ ☎ 04:46, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

You say "I think the names of ancestors are 100% relevant in biographical articles." This is the second time you say it, but you don't say why.
You say "It's also common practice." No it is not. There are no "family trees" in articles about, say, 21st century European, American or Japanese politicians. Try to name a few.
You say "This is the status quo.", but it is so only for some articles on Portuguese people. There is no reason why articles on Portuguese people should be an exception. I'm not comparing them to a couple of irrelevant articles, but to every article on every major European and American 21st century politician. This is a ridiculous exception that denigrates articles on Portuguese people. Even a supposedly noble guy like Sarkozy has only a three generation tree. Just take your time to compare to other European people. I did appreciate the epithets you used, but some arguments would be appreciated too.
In your revert, you deleted some other information, namely on Durão Barroso's name. Please try to avoid that.
Velho (talk) 14:32, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Velho is absolutely right about the irrelevance of such a depth of genealogical information for someone whose social (or political or whatever) position did not come about through genealogical or family reasons (as in the case of royalty and other nobility). In fact the only reason some of the articles on Portuguese personalities have such a high degree of genealogical info is because a Portuguese editor (I believe G.-M. Cupertino) insists on adding them. They are completely out of place in the articles, and look like a ridiculous attempt to "aristocratize" people. Some small info on personal and family life may have its place in an article like this one, but not the sort of info that should only be present in a specialized genealogical site or database. The Ogre (talk) 15:26, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Agree with Velho and Ogre. I saw it awhile back and thought it was strange. I am glad that someone brought it up. Every detail on a person is not relevant to an article, only that which is encyclopedic.--Thomas.macmillan (talk) 15:32, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

As the article stands now, it has family information equivalent to that on Jacques Chirac, François Mitterrand, Tony Blair, Angela Merkel, etc. Please check that if you think it's necessary. More than that, that is, a "famliy tree", would be desirable in a genealogical book, not in an encyclopedia. Velho (talk) 18:25, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Brazilian citizen

Is he really a Brazilian citizen?? I know his father was from Rio, but that doesn't mean Manuel has a Brazilian nationality. Opinoso (talk) 20:53, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

French, German and Portuguese versions of wiki not not make any mention of this, and it is not cited at all. The supposed citation is nothing but a statement without proof. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.217.79.20 (talk) 17:13, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Image

Shouldn't the image of Barroso preferrebly be this one: http://www.mediadesknederland.eu/public/uploads/images/logos/Barroso.jpg ? I don't know the exact specifications for the placement of a picture so I don't dare to just put it in, but as soon as I do get them I will. That's if nobody has the chance to do it before me. --Tomvasseur (talk) 23:03, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

External links

I've cleaned up the External links section a bit. While I don't believe the editor that restored them is a spammer, the first link is spam, the second is redundant, and the third is grossly inappropriate per BLP. --Ronz (talk) 15:09, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

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