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Talk:José Maria de Sousa Horta e Costa

Latest comment: 7 years ago by InternetArchiveBot in topic External links modified
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Latest comment: 13 years ago12 comments3 people in discussion

I have reverted the undo that caused a lot of bad grammar and prose to be re-inserted.

I have explained this at the editors talk page - User talk:Nan Boleyn#Major edit listed as minor

Chaosdruid (talk) 15:45, 16 February 2011 (UTC)Reply

I didn't revert the bad grammar. I was carefull enough to keep the corrections, and those weren't even made by you. Also, the text is a close translation from a Portuguese original I had the chance to read. He wasn't "the" colonial governor, he was "a" colonial governor. The alternative name rarelly appears as such and is most certainly an unofficial adding. So, it becomes a mere footnote. I'm sure I have a wider knowledge on Portuguese family names. And in that translation it comes that he actually made a "brilliant course", which he did, and you removed as if he weren'r, and the "etc, etc" means he had other decorations, and you deleted that too. Also, the Portuguese text says, for instance, that the revolt was "suffocated", and that he resigned "after" a ministerial change and not "with" a Ministerial change. The original text in Portuguese says "Fez um curso brilhante na Escola do Exército e saíu Alferes de Engenharia a 10 de Janeiro de 1883", in English, "He made a brilliant course (as in he made the course brilliantly) at the Escola do Exército, followed the military career (as in pursued it) and came an Alférez of Engineers (saíu=came)". In the original text, he went back "to the Metropole", not to his homeland. His homeland was the Metropole. And so on. A recomendation is just a recomendation, it's not mandatory. It cuts the sequence between place and time of birth and death. Also, you deleted lots of information in the process, such as his participation as a Deputy and the name of his mother-in-law. You know knothing about the original texts from which the article comes from, while I am able to acceed them. You're not even specialized in Portuguese History or any History. Are you even an English born speaker at all? Your edits make no sense and is more like vandalism than anything else. The only thing you did was driving the article away from the purity of the original Portuguese text. Exactly, this is a translation, and unless you have the actual book with you, you can't claim being part of a "Guild of Copy Editors". Nan Boleyn (talk) 16:28, 17 February 2011 (UTC)Reply
Where to start, well first of all let me remind you that I did post on your talk page listing full reasons why I was undoing your revert.
To me it is simply that a literal translation is not necessarily a good one. TO be honest the context may have been changed on one or two places according to what you say the correct translation is, but it seems to me that your version, even if a literal translation is not correct English.
I am an English speaker, being from the UK. I am a copy editor and a member of the Guild of copy-editors. I do not need to read the original Portuguese to copy-edit, my goal there is to correct grammar and some prose and avoid changing context.
I do not need to be specialised in Portuguese history to know "he made a brilliant course" is not what you were hoping it meant. In English it means that he designed the course, not that he studied on it.
I am asking you to discuss here without reverting or undoing the edits again so that we can come to an agreement on what should be done about the problems you perceive. I have no problem changing them myself, or with you changing them as long as they are correct and in good English.
Commenting on my abilities in English, or knowledge of Portuguese history is not really going to help the situation, and comments such as "your edits make no sense" are in fact showing me that your English perhaps is not as good as you thought it was. I am here to help, not hinder and I certainly have not vandalised anything. Chaosdruid (talk) 23:12, 17 February 2011 (UTC)Reply
As another native speaker of English, I support what Chaosdruid is saying here and the edits performed on the article. We simply don't use some of the phrases that you used, and Chaosdruid has made reasonable corrections. I will do some copy edits as well. --Diannaa (Talk) 23:49, 17 February 2011 (UTC)Reply
Why? "Your edits make no sense" sounds like a sentence well built!... Nan Boleyn (talk) 12:59, 18 February 2011 (UTC)Reply
You don't need the book to do the work. Well, you do, because he was not "de Sousa", his main names were "Horta e Costa". Your ignorance is making too much damages in the article. He also didn't make his course as an Army Officer, he became an Army Officer after graduating. With your English thing you're simply changing the whole meaning of the text. You said yourself you couldn't undertstand the sentence, and if you don't even have the book nor speak Portuguese, how can you translate anything properly? Nan Boleyn (talk) 13:02, 18 February 2011 (UTC)Reply
Obviously you know nothing about the person in the article. He was not also known as José Maria de Almeida e Vasconcelos, he was also know, beside José Maria de Sousa Horta e Costa, as also de Almeida e Vasconcelos, that is, José Maria de Sousa Horta e Costa de Almeida e Vasconcelos. Nan Boleyn (talk) 12:59, 18 February 2011 (UTC)Reply
And please do not ommit information. Ommiting information and sources has nothing to do with grammar. Also, grammar and synthaxis are different things. Nan Boleyn (talk) 13:07, 18 February 2011 (UTC)Reply

Just for you to see how blatant is your ignorance on the subject:

  • You call de Sousa to Horta e Costa;
  • According to Percival Noronha, his work was such a work that hadn't been done in hundreds of years before he became Governor, not afterwards as you put it;
  • He personally ended his functions, his functions didn't end by themselves;
  • etc, etc, because he had more decorations than the ones mentioned;
  • His daughter was not also known as, she was never known as that, she just sometimes appears with more or other names in some sources, but those are not official names; if you knew anything on Portuguese Genealogy you wouldn't do that;
  • You keep deliberately ommiting information on his work and life; what's the "grammar issue" in there?

Nan Boleyn (talk) 13:18, 18 February 2011 (UTC)Reply

The statement "he had interventions" makes no sense in English, either fix it or remove it if you cannot accept editors trying to make it make sense.
The rest of the latest corrections I have made are exactly that, and you should not change them back to the previous text. Capitals are only used in specific circumstances, "as the new Governor," is not one, nor are the others such as "Historian".
I would appreciate if you did not keep having digs at my personal knowledge and character. I have already asked you to be more civil and yet you continue with you rants. Chaosdruid (talk) 16:16, 18 February 2011 (UTC)Reply
Can you please be more specific about what information you think has been inadvertently removed during the copy edits? I have checked the current version against the one dated February 10 and can spot nothing missing. What does the phrase "he had interventions" mean? What do you mean when you say "he was part of Commissions"? Please stop reinserting the word "etc." as we do not use that in formal English. Thanks. --Diannaa (Talk) 16:33, 18 February 2011 (UTC)Reply
Do not revert this again - "was a brilliant" - See Wikipedia:Manual of Style (words to watch).
You really need to look at the WP:MOS and guidelines included in the welcome message I posted on your talk page before continuing editing. Chaosdruid (talk) 17:22, 18 February 2011 (UTC)Reply
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